The thing holding me back is the safety concerns. I'm aware of the carcinogens in my furniture, the microplastics in our food, and the PFAS in our drinking water, but this seems like an unnecessary risk. It's in my cart at Aliexpress for $12.45 shipped. I can't imagine the material or labor exploited to get it to my door for less than $13.
Not sure what you're referring to here, but are you suggesting that the plastic CT Toys used could be toxic somehow? If that's what you mean is there any specific reason to think that's the case?
The thing holding me back is the safety concerns. I'm aware of the carcinogens in my furniture, the microplastics in our food, and the PFAS in our drinking water, but this seems like an unnecessary risk. It's in my cart at Aliexpress for $12.45 shipped. I can't imagine the material or labor exploited to get it to my door for less than $13.
Not sure what you're referring to here, but are you suggesting that the plastic CT Toys used could be toxic somehow? If that's what you mean is there any specific reason to think that's the case?
Probably the paint moreso than the plastic. Lead-based paint in toys coming from China has been a problem quite recently. The fact these are being made by an essentially anonymous entity at rock-bottom prices, with none of the attendant regulations or reputational risks moderating their behavior, makes it pretty clear there are corners being cut. The most obvious places to do that would be material and labor costs.
I've got other bootleg items and haven't thought much about this. All I recall that I have are the bootleg Bandai effects that they stopped making years ago--the flame, lightning, and ice effects and the rocks. I also have a knockoff of the Diamond Select Mephisto skull throne. They all seem fine to me. I had read a review of the flame effects where the reviewer said they smelled slightly of petroleum, but I've never been able to detect that odor.
The fact these are being made by an essentially anonymous entity at rock-bottom prices, with none of the attendant regulations or reputational risks moderating their behavior, makes it pretty clear there are corners being cut. The most obvious places to do that would be material and labor costs.
Labor is obvious since it's the same cost-cutting that goes into most things we wear on our bodies or have in our houses. China clinging onto their weird half-baked version of Communism is what makes their labor cheap on a massive scale for thousands of products besides bootlegs. These figures are cheaper because we're getting them straight from the source instead of buying them via brands from other countries like Apple, Samsung, Levis, etc etc.
The lack of safe manufacturing is a definite concern since Chinese manufacturers have been known to do that in the past. But I'm not specifically worried about it. My kids aren't likely to put a CT Toys figure in their mouths.
I've had plenty of bootlegs throughout my life--movies, music, and video games mostly. But Medicom is not a big company. If I take a few bucks out of Mick Jagger's pocket he won't miss it, but Medicom will. And there's no clear replacement for them like there is for movies, music, or games where massive amounts of people compete to be in those businesses. I've long felt lucky that they exist at all doing what they're doing, so shivving them feels particularly self-defeating.
But with something like brown suit Wolverine I totally get it--they still haven't re-released him yet and it's baffling. The choice between $300 and $15 is no choice at all really given how out of touch with the aftermarket Medicom feels at times.
I've been lucky enough to get almost every Mafex figure I ever wanted for near MSRP. If I was struggling to catch up I'd definitely be considering CT Toys, but for now they're just a curiosity.
The fact these are being made by an essentially anonymous entity at rock-bottom prices, with none of the attendant regulations or reputational risks moderating their behavior, makes it pretty clear there are corners being cut. The most obvious places to do that would be material and labor costs.
Labor is obvious since it's the same cost-cutting that goes into most things we wear on our bodies or have in our houses. China clinging onto their weird half-baked version of Communism is what makes their labor cheap on a massive scale for thousands of products besides bootlegs. These figures are cheaper because we're getting them straight from the source instead of buying them via brands from other countries like Apple, Samsung, Levis, etc etc.
The lack of safe manufacturing is a definite concern since Chinese manufacturers have been known to do that in the past. But I'm not specifically worried about it. My kids aren't likely to put a CT Toys figure in their mouths.
There are real differences in the labor practices a company/brand will permit in their supply chain - both legally and under widely adopted norms of best practice - vs what a faceless entity with zero accountability or transparency might be up to. I'm not claiming to have any insider knowledge of how CT is manufacturing these, and I'm certainly not dismissing very real risks of labor exploitation in legitimate product supply chains. But there is a very real and active infrastructure in place to mitigate the worst forms of exploitation, and that totally breaks down with bootlegged goods.
There are real differences in the labor practices a company/brand will permit in their supply chain - both legally and under widely adopted norms of best practice - vs what a faceless entity with zero accountability or transparency might be up to. I'm not claiming to have any insider knowledge of how CT is manufacturing these, and I'm certainly not dismissing very real risks of labor exploitation in legitimate product supply chains. But there is a very real and active infrastructure in place to mitigate the worst forms of exploitation, and that totally breaks down with bootlegged goods.
Definitely.
One difference with CT Toys is for whatever reason they actually do have a brand name that they're putting on packages, and if they intend to keep selling then it's possible--I'm not sure it's likely, but POSSIBLE--that they've taken more safety precautions than the average bootlegger. Anyone else seen that with a bootleg company? I don't think I have. It's brazen, but I get it--they clearly know that the Chinese government doesn't just turn a blind eye to intellectual property from foreign nations, the government ITSELF pirates as much as they can. The entire country appears to view piracy as a competitive advantage.
I've always wondered how Chinese people think about IP theft. Do they view it as some evil by-product of capitalist societies and take some sort of half thought-out stand where them ripping off capitalist countries is a moral good? Are they xenophobic and view ripping off the enemy as fair game? I really have no idea.
I wish documentarians like Ken Burns would do something on China, Japan, or the Koreas. I have SO many questions about all of those cultures and how they view the rest of the world. Certainly China and North Korea are difficult to document, but it doesn't seem impossible to talk to ex-patriots of those countries to get some insight.
I don't think there's any wide cultural divide when it comes to licensed property in China vs elsewhere. They just simply control the means of production in this area and certain individuals and factories are willing to take risks bootlegging to make extra money. The fact that the government is unlikely to step in certainly helps, though they only care so long as it doesn't impact China's ability to continue getting this sort of work. That's the real threat as I'm sure Medicom is pissed their molds were either copied or stolen and they may take their business elsewhere, but that's a huge undertaking in and of itself. I think if the roles were reversed and the US had a bunch of factories capable of producing action figures there would be knock-offs of foreign IP that the US government wouldn't pay much attention to either.
I'd rather not make it a habit, but $20 later I have a Wolverine on my shelf that Medicom won't let me buy.
I do quite like 3rd party figures though (thinking Dragon Ball and Transformers mostly) and at least much prefer when a little engineering work was put in for what I think you'd call 4th party (that black-suit Spidey 3 Figuarts KO with the resculpted chest and back emblems).
I don't think there's any wide cultural divide when it comes to licensed property in China vs elsewhere. They just simply control the means of production in this area and certain individuals and factories are willing to take risks bootlegging to make extra money. The fact that the government is unlikely to step in certainly helps, though they only care so long as it doesn't impact China's ability to continue getting this sort of work.
That's what I used to think, but then I saw multiple stories about the government itself pirating IP ferociously. Foreign companies with patents get ripped off regularly by the government itself, and as a result not many of them operate in the country when it's an item whose design can be reverse-engineered. There are MANY accounts of companies running in China, having the government rip their design off, members of the government start their own company selling that product worldwide, and the company that invented the item goes out of business because they can't compete with Chinese companies who produce their item significantly cheaper than they can.
Is this all exaggeration by Western media? Maybe. We never hear any believable side of their story so we may never know. 🤔
@enigmaticclarity I wasn't aware of the government's direct involvement, but I guess I'm not surprised. I think it still all comes back to China holding the means of production for a vast assortment of consumer goods and leveraging that. It's the easiest way they can make their economy grow and they want to be seen as an economic superpower. Call it nationalism, or call it plain old greed, it's basically an opportunistic form of capitalism and as we've seen in basically any economy if there are no real penalties for doing something then companies (and in this case governments) are going to do whatever makes them the most money. Ethics be damned.
FWIW, I think the CT Toys Wolverine is probably safe.
I have a few bootlegs/unlicensed figures in my collection, and I don't feel great about any of them. I have a high-end unlicensed Matrix figure from Pc Toys and an unlicensed D&D Mimic on pre-order at 5ktoys. Now that MAFEX is doing licensed Matrix figures, I'll be glad to replace the Chinese Neo. As discussed here, there are real questions about regulations in China.
Several years ago, I read an investigative journalism piece about Christmas light manufacturing in Asia (I believe it was in China as well). IIRC, the employees had serious respiratory problems because they were inhaling this unsafe paint all day. I'd link the piece, but I can't find it. I know certain paints are unsafe while wet but fine when dry, but it still freaks me out a bit.
Honestly, the part that worries me the most about the incoming administration is the death of the administrative state. Most of what they propose is so unpopular it will backfire, but if they do manage to neuter the EPA or another department, rebuilding it will be incredibly difficult. I'm also neurotic about the fact that environmental factors are a better predictor of death than anything.
I recognize that a lot of this is in my head, but I can't square the risk with the reward. Yet, anyway. I don't begrudge or judge anyone who does. As I said, it's probably fine.
Now that MAFEX is doing licensed Matrix figures
What? Somehow I missed that.
That's insanely exciting...I can't wait to see how they do Neo's outfit and jacket, or Trinity's. They're both really similar to the Crow's outfit that Mezco did INSANELY well, so if Mafex's Matrix figures are as good as the Mezco Crow I'm all in.
Yeah, they're doing Joachim Joker, The Matrix, and Keanu's BRSKR comic thingy.
Anyway, I agree about picking your targets when it comes to ripping things off. A multinational megacorp that enshittify's its good and services out of pure, naked greed, or the back catalogue of an artist who made tens of millions and is now dead? Yeah, I don't care, I'm gonna rip off your shows/songs/whatever. But a new band doing starting out and doing the toilet circuit, or a boutique toymaker with relatively small production runs? Sure, I'll support 'em. As far as this Wolvie goes specifically, it's both smaller and has noticeable metal bracket things at the outer elbow joint, so that would put me off even if I didn't already have the original.
Finally, on general China chat, isn't it basically the worst of both worlds there now? The CCP has a death grip on power and social control but the actual trading side now is rampant race to the bottom capitalism, everyone promising to do stuff cheaper than the next guy and cutting all the corners they can to pull it off, it's grimly dystopian. That said, there is some genuine talent out there too, even if they could not give less of a toss about IP rights - the totally not-Warcraft 'inspired' figures look truly brilliant, as are some of the various firms shamelessly making Transformers in every size imaginable.
Finally, on general China chat, isn't it basically the worst of both worlds there now? The CCP has a death grip on power and social control but the actual trading side now is rampant race to the bottom capitalism, everyone promising to do stuff cheaper than the next guy and cutting all the corners they can to pull it off, it's grimly dystopian. That said, there is some genuine talent out there too, even if they could not give less of a toss about IP rights - the totally not-Warcraft 'inspired' figures look truly brilliant, as are some of the various firms shamelessly making Transformers in every size imaginable.
Yep it's dystopian there, at least from what we can see on the outside. I'm sure they disagree, but they're also isolated so it'd be tough to believe most opinions coming from inside the country, too. Wish someone could do a deep dive on the current state of things there...
And yes, there are interesting brands coming out of China now. I'm a daily World of Warcraft player, so I really want that Illidan figure they made from scratch by stealing the Warcraft branding. Throughout our lives how many Chinese brands can you name? I couldn't name any before about a decade ago, but now there are cars, televisions, and probably other products I'm unaware of because they haven't gained as much of a foothold in the West for me to notice. I hope all that continues, because there's every reason to think they could be as productive as South Korea or Japan have been since the end of World War 2 if they could just finally admit that Communism doesn't work. They'd probably have surpassed the US in power, influence, and productivity decades ago had Mao never come to power.
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