I think Iron Man, Cap, and Thor are definitely A-list now after all the MCU movies.
Apocalypse headlined a movie as well. He’s up there in terms of recognition. But on topic, I’m good with the single carded deluxe versions. I loved that animated style version of Apocalypse with the cannon arm.
Isn't Hulk also an A-list character?
Apocalypse is undoubtedly on whatever higher tier list than Foom or Surtur, but I still don't think that makes him a better candidate for a HasLab. I'd put my money on more people backing a few of these other characters that have "being huge" as a defining trait vs Apocalypse who grows sometimes, but also has several perfectly serviceable figures to be in a display. I don't think it's a perfect metric by any means, but the fact that a complete Foom BAF goes for between 3-400 does indicate some demand for him.
I’ve been fiddling with my Foom BAF and it really is no fun because of that antiquated articulation. Sculpt is great, even paint is fair. But that articulation is limited in silly ways. Foom with modern articulation at HasLab scale? That would be a fun figure, because it is a totally different build from the other humanoid HasLabs and may lend itself to some really creative posing. I don’t think Foom has had enough exposure to draw enough support to fully fund though.
In terms of future giant figures:
- I GUESS Fing Fang Foom is a popular choice. Everybody says it. I wonder how many people would say that if Toybiz hadn't made one. I'm honestly a little skeptical that he's all that important or special to comics fans OR movie fans. He's a pretty infrequent character who never did anything important that I can recall and I personally think he's not even Marvel's third or fourth most interesting giant monster. I really don't think he'd outpoll The Watcher if not for the Toybiz BAF and I wonder if it has strong appeal with people who are comics fans first. (Side note: I honestly don't think The Watcher needs a Haslab any more because of MCU Watchers and the What If...? Uatu. IMHO, the BAF was underwhelming but a good figure doesn't need to be even Giant Man size and I think the Multiverse Saga has a decent chance of giving us a big MCU Uatu figure who isn't really that different from the comics.)
- I still think Leopardon could get funded largely from people who'd never post on a Marvel Legends forum but the problem with me saying that is I can't really expect people to back me up on that on a Marvel Legends forum.
- I really don't think the demand is there for vehicles like the Quinjet or Blackbird. I don't dispute that some people REALLY want it and can REALLY afford it but I'm deeply skeptical about there being 10k+ backers. Unless the more affluent people who want it buy multiples to make it happen. To be honest, I think that if they do this, they should take off the dumb "limit 5" restriction on Haslabs and let some wealthy enthusiasts or people who want to run raffles go out and buy 15 for $10k. That's honestly how I see Hasbro successfully moving 10k+ units: by the sheer grace of, essentially, philanthropic backers who will drop large sums to get it made and then warehouse or give away their spares. The space requirements alone are nuts. Yes, I backed Eternia and Cats Lair but Eternia can double as a showcase for 50 figures and Cats Lair can probably handle around 40 just in front if you pack them in. A Blackbird or a Quinjet really only houses a handful of figures and it hides the ones it houses. I do think a large $200 Fantasticar would fund alongside an FF movie because it plays better with display options and is cheaper and could probably have a flight display stand like the Dragonfly.
- I honestly think half figures are a real path forward that few people talk about. That's essentially what would be MvC accurate for Apocalypse. Once you have the template of a giant bursting out of the ground, you're looking at making a lot of things that might be cost prohibitive relative to popularity realistic. You're cutting tooling and paint costs dramatically and you get more cohesive displayability with a face and hands closer to your other figures. I think in addition to Apocalypse that Giganto from FF#1 is realistic. Not that FF is the most popular property but that's probably one of the 5 most homaged super-hero covers of all time and I think dios of any of the top 10 or so frequently homaged super-hero covers could move enough to fund.
Off the top of my head, that's:
Action Comics #1 (Essentially just the car with a flight stand to prop figures under)
FF #1
TMNT #1 (Essentially two buildings and a backdrop. Should be cheap.)
Crisis #7 (Essentially a red sun and rocks but I think people would buy it if cheap.)
Walking Dead #1
Spider-Man #1 (Not much to do as a dio but people would buy it as a dio for a single figure.)
Amazing Fantasy #15 (Not much you can do in 3D)
Giant Size X-Men (Not much you can do in 3D)
Uncanny X-Men #1 (Would sell, not much to it)
Hulk #181 (Essentially no background or props to use)
ASM #300 (Essentially nothing to do in 3D)
ASM #129 (Awkward to do in 3D but I think people would buy a dio with a 3D lens to blow up figures in the scope.)
ASM #50 (Messed up if you imagine it literal but I think people would in fact buy 14" tall articulated upper Spider-Man torso turned away to remake the cover)
Avengers #4 (No background)
Jim Lee X-Men #1 (It's essentially just rocks and an ice sled but I think people would buy it with built in stands to place figures if cheap)
Most of the other big ones have no background.
So I hope it comes across that Walking Dead #1, Action #1, Uncanny #141, and FF #1 are basically the only "frequently homaged" covers you could do a detailed figure display of that's more than geometric shapes and flight stands. But I think the ability to swap in any figure you want into a famous cover is a crowdfunding worthy project.
And I think an FF #1 homage with an articulated Giganto is something you don't need to be an FF fan or collector to want to pose any 4 figures in.
The other thing about Apocalypse is he's already been done multiple times. I don't think that alone should preclude a HasLab campaign from getting made, but we've already seen that it makes a difference with Giant-Man. How many times have people said "I already own the Toy Biz Giant-Man" in this thread?
Earlier in the thread, I listed projects that I thought could succeed. Here's a revised list:
- Punisher van
- Fin Fang Foom
- Spider-Mobile
- Fantasticar
Here are some realistic campaigns that I think would fail:
- Blackbird
- Quinjet
- Frost Giant
- Atlas, Stature, etc.
These are based on the current HasLab parameters. I can't see a two-foot Bill Foster funding under any circumstances. It gets more interesting if we look at characters that are too big for deluxe releases but smaller than the current HasLab fare:
- Surtur
- Cameron Hodge
- Mangog
Finally, cause this is my bread and butter, a list of A-list Marvel heroes, more or less in order:
- Spider-Man
- Wolverine
- Hulk
- Iron Man
- Captain America
- Black Panther
- Thor
- Punisher
- Deadpool
- Storm
- Cyclops
My test case is whether Joe Blow on the street has a better chance than not to recognize the character when shown to him. On the cusp:
- Daredevil
- Black Widow
- Hawkeye
- Nightcrawler
- Thing
- Vision
- Jean Grey
- Rocket Raccoon
- Groot
- Captain Marvel
- Scarlet Witch
- Dr. Strange
Movie exposure has made this much more challenging.
Giant-Man:
4,512 / 10,000 (+90) 45.12% of funding goal with 39d 17h left.
Well it was going to happen so it finally dipped below triple digit daily gains for the first time. Let's settle in for a long month+ of backing numbers.
Also just to add my two cents to a couple of items posted for possible Haslab:
Punisher Van - We have seen the direction Marvel/Disney has gone with the Punisher and all the problems lately with the opitics around the character. That is going to make anything related to the character a low priority so I doubt we'll ever see the Van unless the character gets a massive resurgence in popularity that the powers-that-be can't ignore because they want to make money.
Spidermobile - There is already a Spider Buggy on shelves that fits pretty closely with 6" figures and it is warming those shelves pretty well. I can't see them ever thinking a $100+ version would work for a Haslab.
Apocalypse headlined a movie as well. He’s up there in terms of recognition. But on topic, I’m good with the single carded deluxe versions. I loved that animated style version of Apocalypse with the cannon arm.
I think if you asked 10 average moviegoers that aren't comic book nerds that had seen that X-Men movie (good luck finding such people) and asked them who Oscar Isaac played, eight of them wouldn't be able to tell you despite his name being in the title. The response would probably be, Oscar Isaac was in an X-Men movie?
I agree on the animated Apocalypse. It's as good of a representation as I'll ever need.
I'm not sure about Fin Fang Foom either. When push comes to shove, are there 10,000 folks big enough fans to shell out $250 or whatever? Of course if you had Mandarin and an Iron Man as tiers that would probably help things along.
I don't think there are really any great Haslab options for Marvel Legends left. Even Giant Man seems an iffy prospect to me, i'm glad its doing well so far though.
I think they'd be better off waiting a few years and then re-releasing the Sentinel with somewhat different paint deco and with the knee ratchet issue fixed. I'm guessing that even being a re-release you'd still have more demand for that than a vehicle, playset, or some other Giant character that hasn't been done yet.
and yeah some folks who bought the last Sentinel would be up in arms, hence why i think you'd want to at least a 5-10 year gap between releases.
I'm not sure about Fin Fang Foom either. When push comes to shove, are there 10,000 folks big enough fans to shell out $250 or whatever?
No. Legends collectors think there would be because for some reason I've never heard explained the BAF is quite rare.
Why is that BAF in so much lower supply than other BAFs from the 2000s, does anyone know? Was distribution limited, or did Hasbro just not make as many figures as Toy Biz did when they first took over the license? I've always wondered, so if anyone knows why there are so few Fin Fang Fooms that aren't knockoffs please do share.
As someone who works as a data scientist for a living the idea of who is an A-List, B-List, etc character is not something that is subjective for me, personally. I use hard data based upon number of comic appearances. I don't care about movie, tv or animation appearances because quite frankly those versions of the characters are often so different than the source material that they can rarely even be considered the same character.
Based upon comic appearances, here is some hard data. The only 2 comic book characters that have appeared in over 20,000 issues are Batman and Donald Duck. For Marvel only:
15,000+ issues: Only Spider-Man and Wolverine
10,000+ issues: Captain America, Cyclops, Iron Man, Storm
5,000+ issues: 17 more characters (in order: Beast, Thor, Iceman, Thing, Jean Grey, Hulk, Colossus, Professor X, Angel, Nightcrawler, Human Torch, Mr Fantastic, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Invisible Woman, Emma Frost, Magneto)
That's probably where the line for "A-List" ends.
1,000+ issues: a total of 165 marvel characters make this list - this is your "B-List".
There are nearly 23,000 different characters who have appeared in Marvel comics over the years and the vast majority have under 100 comic appearances. Generally, villain appearances are far lower than hero appearances because the hero doesn't fight the same villain all of the time.
There are 22 remaining characters who have at least 1,000 comic appearances who have never been made in Marvel Legends form (in order they are Rockslide, Pixie, Anole, Phoenix Force, Armor, Robbie Robertson, Edwin Jarvis, Husk, Magma, Rick Jones, Cypher, Crystal, Hellion, Sage, Betty Brant, Valerie Cooper, Madelyne Pryor, Surge, Jim Hammond, Liz Allan and Mercury).
In terms of characters mentioned recently in this thread as HasLab candidates (in no certain order):
Apocalypse 1,742 appearances
Fin Fang Foom 382 appearances
Giganto the Mole Monster 108 appearances (my favorite HasLab candidate!)
Arishem the Judge 190 appearances
Dragon Man 438 appearances
Mangog 103 appearances
Living Tribunal 172 appearances
For what it's worth, Hank Pym has appeared in 3,680 issues. Galactus in 1,719 issues, Sentinels in 2,504 issues. Robbie Reyes in 239 issues.
Sorry, I could go into far more detail but don't want to derail the thread. Appearance/Issue counts based upon most recent data available and updated weekly.
As someone who works as a data scientist for a living the idea of who is an A-List, B-List, etc character is not something that is subjective for me. I use hard data based upon number of comic appearances. I don't care about movie, tv or animation appearances because quite frankly those versions of the characters are often so different than the source material that they can rarely even be considered the same character.
Based upon comic appearances, here is some hard data. The only comic book character that has appeared in over 20,000 issues is Batman. For Marvel only:
15,000+ issues: Only Spider-Man and Wolverine
10,000+ issues: Captain America, Cyclops, Iron Man, Storm
5,000+ issues: 17 more characters (in order: Beast, Thor, Iceman, Thing, Jean Grey, Hulk, Colossus, Professor X, Angel, Nightcrawler, Human Torch, Mr Fantastic, Rogue, Kitty Pryde, Invisible Woman, Emma Frost, Magneto)
That's probably where the line for "A-List" ends.
1,000+ issues: a total of 165 marvel characters make this list - this is your "B-List".
There are nearly 23,000 different characters who have appeared in Marvel comics over the years and the vast majority have under 100 comic appearances. Generally, villain appearances are far lower than hero appearances because the hero doesn't fight the same villain all of the time.
There are 22 remaining characters who have at least 1,000 comic appearances who have never been made in Marvel Legends form (in order they are Rockslide, Pixie, Anole, Phoenix Force, Armor, Robbie Robertson, Edwin Jarvis, Husk, Magma, Rick Jones, Cypher, Crystal, Hellion, Sage, Betty Brant, Valerie Cooper, Madelyne Pryor, Surge, Jim Hammond, Liz Allan and Mercury).
In terms of characters mentioned recently in this thread as HasLab candidates (in no certain order):
Apocalypse 1,742 appearances
Fin Fang Foom 382 appearances
Giganto the Mole Monster 108 appearances (my favorite HasLab candidate!)
Arishem the Judge 190 appearances
Dragon Man 438 appearances
Mangog 103 appearances
Living Tribunal 172 appearances
Sorry, I could go into far more detail but don't want to detail the thread.
Is this satire?
Number of appearances doesn't translate into current commercial success, particularly when a large number of appearances would be before the median buyer was born...
Anyway, I think your point does underscore mine that Fing Fang Foom only makes sense as a choice because ToyBiz did one and not because of a significant comics presence. Someone who doesn't especially care about the history of Marvel Legends toys probably isn't going to have any reason to want Fing Fang Foom.
But I would like to point out that Giganto has probably appeared on many more covers than actual comics, including the comics of other publishers! To me, anyway, having a display of a classic and frequently riffed cover probably overshadows the character's actual importance.
And there's essentially no other similar cover that would fit in the Marvel Legends form factor! It's pretty much the one famous cover that both has a character as part of the design and spotlights multiple characters.
Aside from ASM #50 with a giant, red, articulated Spider-Man torso. Or the famous FF cover of a green Galactus.
There's maybe a dozen covers that would work as dioramas but what sets Giganto apart is that there's a figural element, which makes it an action figure project and not just a diorama. And that you can swap essentially any four figures into the display.
No, not intended as satire - but feel free to take it as that if you so choose. As a numbers guy, I tend to think everything in quantifiable - it's just how I think. I understand that not everyone thinks that way. However, I think that it's a terrific way to measure the meaningfulness of a character. Like I said, while I enjoy the movies, tv shows and such those are not the characters that I know from the comics. They're a completely different universe, basically. Legends predates most Marvel movies and I still consider it primarily a comic line. Most people like me that have been in on Legends since 2000ish likely base our fandom mostly on the comics over any other medium.
Also, comic production really multiplied dramatically starting in the mid-1980's so the last few decades have had far more publication than the early decades of Marvel comics (and their other names over the years). I don't have the hard numbers on that readily available but the majority of characters appearances included are likely attributed to the 2-3 most recent decades when your median fan was likely alive. If I'm being honest, both the median and mean age of your average comic book fan is probably much older than most people realize (probably both numbers would be in the 40s, possibly even 50s at this point - much like major league baseball and golf). If anything there may be more comic issues released weekly today than ever before (although part of me still feels like the mid-late 80's and early 90's may have been the peak in terms of that - I'll have to look into it to confirm). I know that my friend that owns a comic book store has a whole long wall 5-6 shelves high devoted to only new weekly releases and he struggles to get them all up on the wall each week. The heaviness of comic production in more recent times is exactly why some of those "non-classic" X-Men characters are so high up on the list.
Also, Fin Fang Foom was a Hasbro BAF, not Toy Biz. I've seen a couple of people say it was Toy Biz, it wasn't. The Walmart exclusive Giant-Man was the final Toy Biz BAF (unless you count the Legendary Heroes line of non-Marvel characters). Now whether Toy Biz ever worked on a sculpt that was later released by Hasbro, I don't know - maybe only Jesse Falcon would know that for sure. It stands to reason that there was some overlap, but the figures that made that BAF were released by Hasbro.
Edit/Update: A quick google search of market research studies proved my earlier point above about the mean and median age of comic book and action figure collectors to be inaccurate and I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. There was lots of data out there, but everything that I saw pretty much all agreed that the average comic book collector is in their mid 30's and the mean/median age of action figure collectors was just slightly younger than that. I was letting my personal experience of observation at my local comic book store skew my original estimates (which a good data person should never do!!). I did text my friend who owns that referenced shop and he did confirm that his comic book clientele does skew older than that and even older for figures and statues. He said that the only thing that people under 30 tend to buy there are Magic and Pokemon cards (which I know absolutely nothing about).
Assuming he’d never release outside of haslab, I could go for an XL Mephisto if he came with a regular sized.
I'm not sure about Fin Fang Foom either. When push comes to shove, are there 10,000 folks big enough fans to shell out $250 or whatever?
No. Legends collectors think there would be because for some reason I've never heard explained the BAF is quite rare.
Why is that BAF in so much lower supply than other BAFs from the 2000s, does anyone know? Was distribution limited, or did Hasbro just not make as many figures as Toy Biz did when they first took over the license? I've always wondered, so if anyone knows why there are so few Fin Fang Fooms that aren't knockoffs please do share.
Do you have some reason to think Foom was produced in lower numbers, rather than the limited aftermarket supply being an indicator of higher demand? After Hasbro took over there were at least 9 BAF waves between 2007-2009:
Annihilus
Blob
Brood Queen
Ronan
Sandman (Spider-Man 3)
Ares
Fin Fang Foom
Red Hulk
Nemesis
Foom was by far the biggest and most ambitious to date, and required 9 figures to build - and MSRP jumped up to $14.99 on that wave, if I recall correctly.
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