No one who is old enough to have been collecting Legends since the beginning would look at the most recent Caps and Spider-Men and think we're in the dark days of Legends.
I think the figure quality in terms of sculpt and design is overall at or near its peak for Legends, and I think the fact the line is over 1,000 figures old and yet still produces a good mix of character selection is impressive (even as I am aging out on many of the characters introduced in the last 25 years)...
I look at the Toybiz MLs and the last couple of years of Hasbro MLs and I honestly think Toybiz is the better line. Yes they are "dated", but look at the stuff they were TRYING to do in those days. They were pushing the boundaries of what action figures could be AT THE TIME. Hasbro is pushing no boundaries today.
...but I think this is also fair, is Legends better than other similar lines at this point? That is an unfair high bar and I say that not thinking that it needs to be or else it is the dark days, but if you put a typical Legends release next to a typical GI Joe or typical McF DC or even Star Wars Black Series, is Legends a cut above and arguably the best mass-market action figure line, which I think it had been many years in the past?
So depends a bit on the comparison group - compared to older Legends, the figures are better than ever; compared to other contemporary lines over the last 20 years, Legends no longer seems to hold the clear title of an industry leader, at least to me. (I don't think they are inferior to other lines, they just seem fairly typical for the scale and price)
The clear "dark days" for Legends was the first few Hasbro years.
I look at the Toybiz MLs and the last couple of years of Hasbro MLs and I honestly think Toybiz is the better line. Yes they are "dated", but look at the stuff they were TRYING to do in those days. They were pushing the boundaries of what action figures could be AT THE TIME.
One thing to keep in mind about this is that Toy Biz WAS Marvel - so the Legends line didn't have to pay a license holder for the rights to make figures of the characters.
Think about how currently it seems like G.I. Joe is delivering more for the money per figure than Marvel Legends is. That is in part because the cost to bring those figures to market is lower with no licensing feee.
Additionally Marvel was a smaller company, and while publicly traded probably had a lower bar for appeasing shareholders from a profit per unit perspective than a behemoth like Hasbro does.
It's some of the reason that we saw all new parts with minimal reuse from McFarlane when it started - he was smaller without share holders to answer to so could afford to make less money per unit and still turn a profit that satisfied him.
All that is to say that the days of ToyBiz are long gone and aren't likely to be back soon.
@enforcer and @akatsuki If the question is why are there more people disenchanted with ML, I can only give you my reasons. For each of these I could offer multiple examples, but in the interest of length, I'll leave that out.
More reuse, higher cost
Nickel and diming
Low-effort releases (ie, a couple of fists, little to no paint apps)
I personally think these issues are becoming and more the rule rather than the exception. Yes, they'll do the occasional really good figure, (I love the latest Black Widow) but there's a ton of mediocrity in between. I just don't feel we are getting the maximum effort for our dollar for the vast majority of the releases and as such, they don't feel like "adult collectibles" to me. $30 and 20 points of articulation don't automatically equal adult collectible. There has to be the visible extra effort.
I look at the Toybiz MLs and the last couple of years of Hasbro MLs and I honestly think Toybiz is the better line. Yes they are "dated", but look at the stuff they were TRYING to do in those days. They were pushing the boundaries of what action figures could be AT THE TIME. Hasbro is pushing no boundaries today. Today they're settling. They are settling for the bucks they already have, they are settling for no paint, they are settling for bare minimum accessories, charging the maximum, and calling it all good.
Again, there's some good stuff that occasionally comes from ML, but the above is the reason my buying has gone way, way down.
They are certainly getting mileage out of plain bodies - but they are still trying to innovate. Pinless joints. Improved female bodies. Face print tech. Toy Biz produced a fraction of the characters and figures that Hasbro is - and you have the luxury of choice in whatever you wish to collect. I liked that tan/brown Wolverine way back in ML Series 8 or whatever, but it frankly pails in comparison to more recent Wolverine releases. The articulation, proportions, overall aesthetic. I've been collecting Legends that long where I have extensive frame of reference and the benefit of hindsight. If you aren't happy with the number of accessories, don't buy. 90% of that sits in storage for me.
Sure Toy Biz had unique sculpts for everything but how many hundreds of characters would never have been made that we have today using that model? Now that these figures are pinless, they are creeping toward the more expensive figures in quality. I prefer the proportions of the 3 pack Daredevil to the MaFex one. Ditto the recent Jim Lee Cyclops. Your mileage may vary, but I think most collectors who have been with the line since the early 2000s recognize how far things have come and how spoiled we are for fantastic renditions of some very popular, and obscure characters.
They are certainly getting mileage out of plain bodies - but they are still trying to innovate. Pinless joints. Improved female bodies. Face print tech. Toy Biz produced a fraction of the characters and figures that Hasbro is
If you're looking for sheer quantity then Hasbro is your best bet. I'm not a collector who's looking for the whole Marvel universe on my shelf, just my faves. I just think the quality that you get with that high quantity is definitely debatable.
Yeah, when I bring up Toybiz, I'm not comparing it in terms of a Toybiz Hulk vs a Hasbro Hulk. I'm talking about the different things they were willing to try to make the figures exciting for the collector: Magnets in feet, articulated fingers, paint shading and dry brushing, bases and motorcycles with plastic volume equal to the actual figure at no extra cost, the BAF model....this was all outside-of-box thinking at the time, no other action figure line was doing this stuff. For the relatively short time TBML was around, it was exciting to see what they'd do next. No, not everything they did worked out, but they were TRYING, and that was fun to see.
I'll give you Hasbro face printing. I think it was just this year that they started doing it with their comic based figures and I do like that. Pinless is not the innovation that they want you to think it is. Mattel was doing it with their final run of DC figures five years ago. By "improved female bodies" I'm going to assume you mainly mean double jointed elbows. Thant's not a Hasbro innovation, other companies are doing it, and fans have been calling for it for years. Hasbro just now is deciding to get off their butts to do it.
I wonder what Hasbro’s takeaway from the Ghostbusters Haslab funding so quickly when Giant Man struggled. Same 10,000 backers needed but $100 more and it hit the goal in 3 days. Which is interesting since the Ghosbusters figures didn’t seem to do as well as normal ML figures. Maybe Ghosbusters is a better role play license for them than figures? Wonder if that will convince them to shift to role play for the next Marvel Haslab?
The Ghostbuster items, like Sentinels and Galactus have been around a long time: nearly 40 years, 58 and 57 years respectively. They have an iconic look, and haven’t changed much in all that time. That means you have a wide audience/customer base spread over 40+ years.
At one point I wanted to have a display of iconic prop toys - Trek phasers/communicators; Star Wars lightsabre; Ghostbuster trap, etc. These iconic items appeal to even casual fans. You don’t need to be a completist or go to deep - say collecting all the Reavers. I am familiar with the Reavers, but this is where ML starts to get “thin” for me. Was Giant-man iconic? Kinda… Unlike Sentinels and Galactus, Hank Pym had had a bunch of aliases and looks. Plus, for older collectors they already had a larger Giant-man. (I was on the fence but bought one at the end). The next Haslab needs to be iconic and have a depth of appeal to grab older and younger fans. (That’s why Hellcharger failed). Not sure Marvel has anything that iconic left. Avenger’s Mansion and Quinjet were replaced by Bendis and co. FF HQ is no more. Danger Room could possibly fly, but not very “sexy”. Fin Fang Foom is a novelty to modern fans. The character is not part of modern comics. And MCU changes looks every film for licensing purposes that there is nothing iconic there either. Maybe it has had its time
They are certainly getting mileage out of plain bodies - but they are still trying to innovate. Pinless joints. Improved female bodies. Face print tech. Toy Biz produced a fraction of the characters and figures that Hasbro is
If you're looking for sheer quantity then Hasbro is your best bet. I'm not a collector who's looking for the whole Marvel universe on my shelf, just my faves. I just think the quality that you get with that high quantity is definitely debatable.
Yeah, when I bring up Toybiz, I'm not comparing it in terms of a Toybiz Hulk vs a Hasbro Hulk. I'm talking about the different things they were willing to try to make the figures exciting for the collector: Magnets in feet, articulated fingers, paint shading and dry brushing, bases and motorcycles with plastic volume equal to the actual figure at no extra cost, the BAF model....this was all outside-of-box thinking at the time, no other action figure line was doing this stuff. For the relatively short time TBML was around, it was exciting to see what they'd do next. No, not everything they did worked out, but they were TRYING, and that was fun to see.
I'll give you Hasbro face printing. I think it was just this year that they started doing it with their comic based figures and I do like that. Pinless is not the innovation that they want you to think it is. Mattel was doing it with their final run of DC figures five years ago. By "improved female bodies" I'm going to assume you mainly mean double jointed elbows. Thant's not a Hasbro innovation, other companies are doing it, and fans have been calling for it for years. Hasbro just now is deciding to get off their butts to do it.
Zero appetite for getting into a "they aren't innovating because I say they're not" debate. Other companies can do whatever they want. Hasbro is continuing to improve on and add to designs. Legends will continue to improve aesthetics, articulation and deco. If they hadn't at all over the last few years, I'd agree with you. But that's not the case, at all.
They are certainly getting mileage out of plain bodies - but they are still trying to innovate. Pinless joints. Improved female bodies. Face print tech. Toy Biz produced a fraction of the characters and figures that Hasbro is
If you're looking for sheer quantity then Hasbro is your best bet. I'm not a collector who's looking for the whole Marvel universe on my shelf, just my faves. I just think the quality that you get with that high quantity is definitely debatable.
Yeah, when I bring up Toybiz, I'm not comparing it in terms of a Toybiz Hulk vs a Hasbro Hulk. I'm talking about the different things they were willing to try to make the figures exciting for the collector: Magnets in feet, articulated fingers, paint shading and dry brushing, bases and motorcycles with plastic volume equal to the actual figure at no extra cost, the BAF model....this was all outside-of-box thinking at the time, no other action figure line was doing this stuff. For the relatively short time TBML was around, it was exciting to see what they'd do next. No, not everything they did worked out, but they were TRYING, and that was fun to see.
I'll give you Hasbro face printing. I think it was just this year that they started doing it with their comic based figures and I do like that. Pinless is not the innovation that they want you to think it is. Mattel was doing it with their final run of DC figures five years ago. By "improved female bodies" I'm going to assume you mainly mean double jointed elbows. Thant's not a Hasbro innovation, other companies are doing it, and fans have been calling for it for years. Hasbro just now is deciding to get off their butts to do it.
Zero appetite for getting into a "they aren't innovating because I say they're not" debate. Other companies can do whatever they want. Hasbro is continuing to improve on and add to designs. Legends will continue to improve aesthetics, articulation and deco. If they hadn't at all over the last few years, I'd agree with you. But that's not the case, at all.
Agreed, I look at the last two years as a new era, the 3rd age of Hasbro legends, the pinless and printed figs are so much better, I'm actually wanting to sell all my pinned stuff to start fresh cause it feels like a much better line
Every other Legends figure used to have at least one floppy joint as recently as 2020. These days it's a rarity. They're definitely improving.
I'm reminded of that when I buy other lines for my kids. Just bought them Jakks Pacific Sonic figures--every figure has 2-3 floppy joints, and the articulation stinks. People are taking the engineering of Legends for granted, but they shouldn't.
Personally, I'm enjoying Hasbro's Marvel Legends much more than I ever did the ToyBiz figures. Not only is the character selection far greater, but the aesthetic of the line is a quantum leap forward. I hated the big ball joints and marionette-like look, as well as the dark oversprays and dirty paint look of ToyBiz figures. I'm much happier now.
I agree about the paints. I think the oversprays and washes made the figures look sloppy and inconsistent. Sometimes they brought out the sculpt, other times they were trying to enhance the sculpt but wound up muddying it up. And often, those paints were the reason for stuck and broken joints.
Looking back, I too was not a fan of the big ball joints, especially in the hips. As much as they were trying to innovate, the protruding shoulders were ugly thanks to the upward butterfly joints. The lateral butterfly joints also made the shoulders too low, like on Black Panther. The texture on some figures, while other figures were smooth, made the figures look inconsistent, like they were from different lines. So many figures with wonky proportions. Females did have more articulation in some cases, but often paid for it in aesthetics, proportions, or both. Rose colored glasses for Toy Biz. Innovation may have been happening, but they were basically a beta test product.
I agree about the paints. I think the oversprays and washes made the figures look sloppy and inconsistent. Sometimes they brought out the sculpt, other times they were trying to enhance the sculpt but wound up muddying it up. And often, those paints were the reason for stuck and broken joints.
Looking back, I too was not a fan of the big ball joints, especially in the hips. As much as they were trying to innovate, the protruding shoulders were ugly thanks to the upward butterfly joints. The lateral butterfly joints also made the shoulders too low, like on Black Panther. The texture on some figures, while other figures were smooth, made the figures look inconsistent, like they were from different lines. So many figures with wonky proportions. Females did have more articulation in some cases, but often paid for it in aesthetics, proportions, or both. Rose colored glasses for Toy Biz. Innovation may have been happening, but they were basically a beta test product.
I totally forgot about those joints like on Colossus where the whole arm hinged up. They definitely were trying things. Not all of it great.
I was so blown away at the ultra articulation when Toybiz started Legends and Spidey classics that I didn't even notice or care about the wonky proportions and fugly joints. It was pretty groundbreaking stuff for figures smaller than 6th scale at the time.
It was a great time for Marvel Collectors and the turning of a major corner for action figures. But they definitely don't live up to todays ML standards IMO.
I feel Hasbro being "less innovating" is more a function the line having dialed itself in over the course of 24 years ( 😲 ) rather than a lack of ideas.
I've been around since the Spider-Man Classics days (actually the 1990 ToyBiz SuperHeroes days) and, I agree, that not everything Toy Biz did was a hit. Was it exciting? Were they the best Marvel figures to date? Do I still have a lot of nostalgia for their work? Yes to all of it. But, yeah, the paint washes were all over the place (why did Byrne Cyclops need to be all gritty? He's never been depicted that way), the inconsistencies in character scale, and some articulation choices didn't work. I distinctly remember when they introduced the ball hips with Series 4's Gambit and Spider-Man Series 6's Daredevil and thinking these are not great and a step backwards from where we were. And yet, those f'ing ball hips stuck around until Hasbro developed the Bucky Cap body and slowly started phasing them out.
If you go back and take a look at the Spider-Man Classics Spider-Man (both Red/Blue and Symbiote) their hips function the same way current MLs do, they've just replaced the disc hinge with a ball joint. Yet because of ToyBiz running with the ball hips, we had to put up with an inferior design for 9 years worth of figures. To this day people are asking for figure re-dos simply to get an update away from the ball hips.
Overarticulation was a bear. Take a character like Punisher, whose hinged fingers kept him from gripping his guns properly. Ghost Rider who couldn't grip his handlebars. All the goofy looking fists... or hinged fingers that curled in as fists, but didn't look good as anything but fists. Yes, they were trying things. But they were experiments that didn't always have lasting effects.
I hate, HATE finger articulation. Especially with characters that hold guns. Even in Transformers.
Hate. It.
Latest Post: Marvel Legends MAXIMUM SERIES Our newest member: maryannexorn Recent Posts Unread Posts
