But the evidence certainly supports that historically they made us wait for comic versions of villains and supporting characters especially if those characters got movie based figures.
Correct. At the 2023 Comic-Con, I went to the Hasbro booth and asked about the Invaders (As I do every year). Dwight told me that we very nearly got an Invaders boxed set as an Amazon exclusive. BUT ... the Sub-Mariner was just in the Wakanda Forever movie a few months prior, and it was decided by someone else (don't know who, didn't ask, not my business anyway) that an Invaders set would be too much Namor in too short a time. A classic Invaders set without Subby wouldn't be cool, so we got the West Coast Avengers instead.
I love the Avengers and that set was fun, but man. I have been waiting 60 FREAKING YEARS for the Jim Hammond Human Torch and Toro in action figure form.
It would be nice if someone finally terminated the damn suspense.
Let's be honest - if anyone exaggerated how much of a thing it was it was probably us, not them!
I mean... it's not made up. In addition to them actually saying it out loud you can look at the movies and their antagonists and see how long it took them to deliver and which one's we still don't have figures of the villains and ancillary characters:
I definitely don't think it's made up - I know multiple people have talked to the team about it, and I've heard them mention it in the odd interview. But I do think it's possible it became overinterpreted as an explanation for what did and didn't get made - we only get so much information about the behind the scenes decision-making process, so I think it's understandable.
That whole list of MCU projects with unmade characters starts from the assumption that those characters should or would have been made otherwise - which frankly isn't true for a ton of them. I seriously doubt some mandate kept Whiplash, for example, from getting made until now - I think they just had to find a place to put him, balancing the hundreds of characters on the to-do list, the budget of any given wave, and the fact that he wasn't gonna be a big seller. Count Nefaria is a bigger name than Whiplash with no MCU presence, and he also took until now to make. A lot of these characters might not have comic figures yet simply because they haven't made them priorities and/or found the right budget for them, probably because they're expecting modest sales.
I would guess that the number of times this actually delayed or derailed plans for comic figures is pretty small. There's no comic Phastos, Heimdall, or Nebula figure that got waylaid because of the MCU. They made the core comic Guardians team almost the same year the first movie released, which definitely wasn't happening without the movie. On the other hand, it definitely seems relevant for the big 3 that get cited in this conversation most frequently - Skurge, M'Baku, and Attuma. Anyway, I obviously have no idea how this works - its just fun to speculate.
But the evidence certainly supports that historically they made us wait for comic versions of villains and supporting characters especially if those characters got movie based figures.Correct. At the 2023 Comic-Con, I went to the Hasbro booth and asked about the Invaders (As I do every year). Dwight told me that we very nearly got an Invaders boxed set as an Amazon exclusive. BUT ... the Sub-Mariner was just in the Wakanda Forever movie a few months prior, and it was decided by someone else (don't know who, didn't ask, not my business anyway) that an Invaders set would be too much Namor in too short a time. A classic Invaders set without Subby wouldn't be cool, so we got the West Coast Avengers instead.
I love the Avengers and that set was fun, but man. I have been waiting 60 FREAKING YEARS for the Jim Hammond Human Torch and Toro in action figure form.
It would be nice if someone finally terminated the damn suspense.
I wonder if this is about the comic v film clash, or if they just thought that Namor wasn't a big enough seller to warrant back to back releases. In 2023 Comic-Con the Void wave would have already been planned and ready to go as well (was it announced then? Or only Crystar?) which may have added to the Namor overload.
Sure would like that Invaders set though...
I’d love more Namor figures. Pinless classic Namor and a figure of him in his modern Defenders of the Deep armored costume would be great.
A lot of these recent leak listings have been GREAT. Adam Warlock has been my #1 want from ML so it's nice to see him get anything, but... if it comes with the Gauntlet, I know it's not gonna be the design I want most (OG Starlin). Fabian Cortez just means Exodus soon (thank god), and Kaine is cool.
I feel it's a bit misleading to call these MVC-style releases specifically "MVC"... While they're the MVC looks, they're not licensing Capcom at all. Glad they're getting made though, the Capcom games are the best many Marvel characters have ever looked and it's great seeing them represented in some manner. I want the Capcom characters more than any of these, but it's definitely easier to just make these looks than go through the legal troubles and financial risk of licensing Capcom. (every Capcom character would be done better by other companies anyways)
kept Whiplash, for example, from getting made until now - I think they just had to find a place to put him, balancing the hundreds of characters on the to-do list, the budget of any given wave, and the fact that he wasn't gonna be a big seller. Count Nefaria is a bigger name than Whiplash with no MCU presence, and he also took until now to make.
What's also interesting is that both Whiplash and Nefaria are selling slow. My Walmart has had a pile of Whiplash for $18 something for over a month.
This also happened to the FF villains (yes, and the whole wave). This did not really happen to the Supervillains BAF wave.
I think this makes the case for continuing BAFs in Retro card waves.
@thor-el They could correct all of this with just one wave.... Volstagg BAF, Fandral, Hogun, Balder, Kurse, Heimdall, Executioner and whatever Thor figure they feel necessary to throw in. Bang, done!!
Plus a deluxe Valkyrie with Aragorn done separately but to coincide with the wave. Heck, while they're at it they might as well do a made to order Frost Giant with multiple heads as well to represent Laufey, Ymir and a generic or two.
I absolutely 1000% support and endorse this course of action, and second @beamish's Simonson Thor suggestion. Simonson Loki would be another good choice to throw in there as an option as well. Heck, a Fan Channel 2-pack with Simonson Loki and Lorelei, with Frog Thor pack-in. But that's a fever dream, and we won't ever see something like that happen. 🙁
kept Whiplash, for example, from getting made until now - I think they just had to find a place to put him, balancing the hundreds of characters on the to-do list, the budget of any given wave, and the fact that he wasn't gonna be a big seller. Count Nefaria is a bigger name than Whiplash with no MCU presence, and he also took until now to make.
What's also interesting is that both Whiplash and Nefaria are selling slow. My Walmart has had a pile of Whiplash for $18 something for over a month.
This also happened to the FF villains (yes, and the whole wave). This did not really happen to the Supervillains BAF wave.
I think this makes the case for continuing BAFs in Retro card waves.
The comic Ronan figure from last year was a great model to get out some of these missing villains - just like Skurge, M'Baku, and Attuma, Ronan is a bigger character but not huge, and they put out a fantastic figure of his classic look for (I think) $35? I'd be *thrilled* to see those three released in just the same way.
I'd also love to have BAFs in retro waves too. Basically whatever gets more figures out there.
I definitely don't think it's made up - I know multiple people have talked to the team about it, and I've heard them mention it in the odd interview. But I do think it's possible it became overinterpreted as an explanation for what did and didn't get made - we only get so much information about the behind the scenes decision-making process, so I think it's understandable.
That whole list of MCU projects with unmade characters starts from the assumption that those characters should or would have been made otherwise - which frankly isn't true for a ton of them. I seriously doubt some mandate kept Whiplash, for example, from getting made until now - I think they just had to find a place to put him, balancing the hundreds of characters on the to-do list, the budget of any given wave, and the fact that he wasn't gonna be a big seller. Count Nefaria is a bigger name than Whiplash with no MCU presence, and he also took until now to make. A lot of these characters might not have comic figures yet simply because they haven't made them priorities and/or found the right budget for them, probably because they're expecting modest sales.
I would guess that the number of times this actually delayed or derailed plans for comic figures is pretty small. There's no comic Phastos, Heimdall, or Nebula figure that got waylaid because of the MCU. They made the core comic Guardians team almost the same year the first movie released, which definitely wasn't happening without the movie. On the other hand, it definitely seems relevant for the big 3 that get cited in this conversation most frequently - Skurge, M'Baku, and Attuma. Anyway, I obviously have no idea how this works - its just fun to speculate.
So... I think though - the argument is that Whiplash as a character, or Heimdall, or Skurge or Nebula (maybe not Phastos - even most comic fans wouldn't be able to describe comic Phastos) would sell better as comic figures when their profile is highest - meaning during or after they were featured in a major motion picture.
So, sure, Whiplash wasn't the hottest seller from the Iron Man retro wave this year - but he might have done a little better at at time when people were more familiar with the name and concept from the movie - 14 years ago. Especially if there was a modicum of effort to link the two together. It seems less likely that a figure of say, Skurge, will sell better, years out from his major movie appearance than he would if he were released in the same year that Ragnarok was in theaters.
I get all the arguments about planning and what not - and the idea that they don't want to confuse customers - but I think their embargo policy probably hurts sales more than it helps.
I definitely don't think it's made up - I know multiple people have talked to the team about it, and I've heard them mention it in the odd interview. But I do think it's possible it became overinterpreted as an explanation for what did and didn't get made - we only get so much information about the behind the scenes decision-making process, so I think it's understandable.
That whole list of MCU projects with unmade characters starts from the assumption that those characters should or would have been made otherwise - which frankly isn't true for a ton of them. I seriously doubt some mandate kept Whiplash, for example, from getting made until now - I think they just had to find a place to put him, balancing the hundreds of characters on the to-do list, the budget of any given wave, and the fact that he wasn't gonna be a big seller. Count Nefaria is a bigger name than Whiplash with no MCU presence, and he also took until now to make. A lot of these characters might not have comic figures yet simply because they haven't made them priorities and/or found the right budget for them, probably because they're expecting modest sales.
I would guess that the number of times this actually delayed or derailed plans for comic figures is pretty small. There's no comic Phastos, Heimdall, or Nebula figure that got waylaid because of the MCU. They made the core comic Guardians team almost the same year the first movie released, which definitely wasn't happening without the movie. On the other hand, it definitely seems relevant for the big 3 that get cited in this conversation most frequently - Skurge, M'Baku, and Attuma. Anyway, I obviously have no idea how this works - its just fun to speculate.
So... I think though - the argument is that Whiplash as a character, or Heimdall, or Skurge or Nebula (maybe not Phastos - even most comic fans wouldn't be able to describe comic Phastos) would sell better as comic figures when their profile is highest - meaning during or after they were featured in a major motion picture.
So, sure, Whiplash wasn't the hottest seller from the Iron Man retro wave this year - but he might have done a little better at at time when people were more familiar with the name and concept from the movie - 14 years ago. Especially if there was a modicum of effort to link the two together. It seems less likely that a figure of say, Skurge, will sell better, years out from his major movie appearance than he would if he were released in the same year that Ragnarok was in theaters.
I get all the arguments about planning and what not - and the idea that they don't want to confuse customers - but I think their embargo policy probably hurts sales more than it helps.
I completely agree with this. Whatever impact the policy had on who did or didn't get made, it seems obvious to me that it would be preferable to get the characters out while their profile is raised via film appearances. It seems crazy that every MCU project doesn't have the necessary movie figures + a whole complement of comic figures released alongside it. I know I'm much more likely to be on a Thunderbolts kick (for example) when there is a movie on the horizon, and eager to pick up comic figures.
Let's take Cap as an example:
What is the harm in offering -
The three deluxe figures already shown: Cap, Falcon and Red Hulk
And
Either a BAF wave or Retro Card wave with complimentary Cap related figures that are not going to be made at least a year out of the movie premier if they are in the Cap film: Diamondback, Demolition Man, Sin, Isaiah Bradley, Patriot, Jim Hammond, Toro, Spitfire, Baron Blood, Blazing Skull, any number of Invaders, Serpents, etc.
Are they afraid of comic vs. film competition?
I've always said that, sprouting from my desire to quit mixing the waves. I really see nothing wrong with an entire comic wave related to the project they're releasing. Maybe even do it strictly fan channel as to not potentially confuse any normies? I dunno.
They did do something like that though with Civil War. I think one wave was entirely comic except, if I'm remembering correctly, for Scarlet Witch? I assume something occurred that provoked the way they do things now though.
I know I'm much more likely to be on a Thunderbolts kick (for example) when there is a movie on the horizon, and eager to pick up comic figures.
I wonder if THIS is why we haven't gotten more Thunderbolts figures! That movie has been on the radar for at least three years and is coming out one year late - so about the time it became a thing is when we received our last comic Thunderbolt.
The characters are completely different, but it doesn't make sense why Hasbro just stopped making this requested team. Hmmmmm.
Let's take Cap as an example:
What is the harm in offering -
The three deluxe figures already shown: Cap, Falcon and Red Hulk
And
Either a BAF wave or Retro Card wave with complimentary Cap related figures that are not going to be made at least a year out of the movie premier if they are in the Cap film: Diamondback, Demolition Man, Sin, Isaiah Bradley, Patriot, Jim Hammond, Toro, Spitfire, Baron Blood, Blazing Skull, any number of Invaders, Serpents, etc.
Are they afraid of comic vs. film competition?
I think it's more likely a matter of retailer interest and production capacity than a fear of competition. The Captain America situation is a bit unique since due to the size they chose to do deluxe releases rather than a proper BAF wave, so this might actually work for this specific example. If they're already doing a movie wave (which usually means a lot of new sculpting), it might not be so simple to also do a comic wave alongside it, especially if the stores aren't interested.
That's why I'm hoping the recent Strange Tales and Marvel Knights waves didn't totally bomb. If they did well enough to justify more, doing these fan channel exclusive waves that contain lower profile characters that stores might not otherwise be keen to order could be a good way to get some of these missing Legends fans want.
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