@enigmaticclarity some people really like camp. It's similar to old monster movies and cheap horror which has some broad appeal. All practical effects, martial artists in costumes, it all felt real compared to cartoons. There really wasn't anything like it on American airwaves at the time and it's hard to undersell how toyetic the brand is. I was 9 when the show hit the states and I thought it was okay, but I wanted the toys bad. The old 8" figures were highly articulated by the standards of the day and the combining Megazord was like a super Voltron. It's still a great toy even today and back in '93 stores could not keep the stuff on shelves.
I'm a huge Power Rangers (and Super Sentai) fan. So here to provide context: Hasbro purchased Power Rangers because of Brian Goldner. He used to work at Bandai and had a soft spot for it. When he passed away, most folks at Hasbro treated it like trash. Including Chris Cocks.
There were those on the PR team that were passionate about the brand, but most of the team probably didn't care. Dwight, Dan, and Ryan constantly sell their enthusiasm. So do the GI Joe folks. Almost every single time PR had time at a Pulse event, they'd double-down on the goofiness and smack around a pinata or wear Megazord slippers. Marvel, Star Wars, GI Joe, and Transformers teams never did this. Why would anyone who you're trying to entice to buy product take PR seriously when Hasbro themselves would not?
That's ultimately what did PR in. I loved those Lightning Collection figures (whose potential was cut short since the very beginning with the QC issues). It's really a shame.
PR is for little kids as much as any other geek franchise is. If the property gets made into 6" action figure form for $25 plus, it has officially crossed over into "adult collectible" territory.
Correct! People often forget that their favorite pop culture property probably started out geared toward kids.
MMPR was just so big in the mid-90s from a retail sales point of view that there's probably always someone who thinks there is money to be made on the franchise.
I've never fully understood that popularity, but my guess has always been that adults and older kids see the intentional ULTRA-campy acting, writing, costumes, etc and are turned off, but little kids don't know it's camp and think it's just super-dramatic. But I've never been sure what kids see in it.
I remember wincing the first time I saw clips from it in my early twenties. I still react the same way today, but now I don't say it because I knew my kids liked it. Maybe they still like it a little, not really sure yet. All I know is my son no longer wants figures from it at age 9, but he did as recently as age 7.
As the kid who was 6 when MMPR first aired, I'll tell you exactly what it was: it was a live-action superhero show when the only other alternatives were cartoons. There is something magical about seeing superheroes pilot giant robots and it NOT being animated. We didn't care for the acting. We cared about the action. Nowadays, we care more about the acting and craft involved with making the realism work.
We're 53 pages in. Is there a spot that has all of the leaks/rumors compiled into one list?
My understanding with Diamond is that they basically are grandfathered in as their license goes way back with Marvel. They're limited to scale, articulation, and number of releases in a fiscal year. The licensing fee increases must be capped or something to allow for it to keep going as long as it has, or they just don't change. The price of their figures, when adjusted for inflation, really hasn't changed and may have even gone down.
Diamond/Marvel Select's licensing is something I've wondered a lot about. This would make a lot of sense if true,
Beamish re-posts these rumor lists occasionally, but this one comes from JayC on marvelousnews, Nov 2nd.
re-issues:
- X-Factor Havoc and Polaris 2-Pack
- X-Factor Strong Guy BAF
- Super Skrull
Mini-Comic wave:
- Rom The Space Knight with ROM Mini-Comic #1
- Banshee (Green and Yellow Classic Costume) with Giant Sized X-Men #1 Mini-Comic
- Adam Warlock with Infinity Gauntlet #1 Mini-Comic
- Miles Morales Spider-Man with Miles Morales: The Ultimate Spider-Man #1 Mini-Comic
- Dark Avengers Wolverine with Dark Avengers #1 Mini-Comic
- Ultimate Iron Man with unkown Ultimate Iron Man Mini-Comic
2-packs:
- Champion and Magus
- Inhumans Triton and Black Bolt
X-Men 97 (2-packs):
- Wolverine and Strom
- Cyclops and Jean
X-Men 97 Deluxe:
- Storm
- Professor X
3rd wave of X-Men 97:
- Morph
- Jubilee
- Emma Frost
- Cable
- Roberto da Costa
- Logan
regular X-Men:
- Ultimate Wolverine
- X-Force Nightcrawler
- Age Of Apocalypse Gambit
- X-Factor Cyclops (Blue and Yellow)
- Marrow
- Generation X Husk
- Fabian Cortez
Ultimate Fan Channel Exclusive line
- Spider-Man
- Hulk
Spider-Man movie:
- No Way Home Electro
- Spider-Man 3 Tobey Black Costume Spider-Man
Spider-Man Retro Cardback wave:
- Retro Spider-Man Animated Chameleon
- '90s Clone Saga Kaine
- Female Electro
- Spider-Boy (Hinted By Hasbro At SDCC)
- Spider-Man Unlimited (Hinted By Hasbro At SDCC)
- Agent Venom
misc:
- Battle-Damaged Spider-Man
- Anti-Venom
- Retro Card Mysterio
Gamerverse Spider-Man 2 Wave (including 5 variant Spider-Man costume figures)
- Black-suit Peter
- Brooklyn 2099 Suit (Miles)
- Boricua Suit (Miles)
- Black Cat
PR is for little kids as much as any other geek franchise is. If the property gets made into 6" action figure form for $25 plus, it has officially crossed over into "adult collectible" territory.
Correct! People often forget that their favorite pop culture property probably started out geared toward kids.
Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, just about any A-list superhero created in the 1960's or before. That was all kids' stuff before they morphed into franchise juggernauts aimed at adults. Kids coming along for the ride is an added bonus, but by and large these are all adult franchises now.
Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, just about any A-list superhero created in the 1960's or before. That was all kids' stuff before they morphed into franchise juggernauts aimed at adults. Kids coming along for the ride is an added bonus, but by and large these are all adult franchises now.
This is a wild take to me. The products and media for adult collectors are the most visible to us, but no matter what is coming out there is always, always product and media for kid audiences, almost always in greater volume and range of offerings, and the bulk of the most expensive media is made to be friendly to all audiences. Every time there's a period where the adult-focused product is doing well and the GA and kid product is doing poorly, it is considered a downturn for that franchise. DC revamped their entire media content strategy because the only things doing well were Batman movies for sad adults, every single one of whom has a podcast where they suggest violations of the Geneva Convention against people who both like and dislike superhero movies. You think those are the people WB or Disney is banking the future on? An aging, unpleasable audience built inside a fan-outrage ecosystem dedicated to killing the fun around new franchise releases? That's not sustainable. ML could die tomorrow and there will still be unrecognizable lumps of $10 plastic for kids on the shelves labeled Spider-Man, Maybe? and they will make more on that in one year than all of ML made in five.
Regarding Power Rangers, the difference between that and G.I. Joe/Transformers is that's it's a media-first franchise. Joe and Transformers, you can always have those on the shelves because the characters and designs are evergreen and distinct. Power Rangers is always 5-6 similarly armored people and you need a show to tell you which one is your personality.
Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, just about any A-list superhero created in the 1960's or before. That was all kids' stuff before they morphed into franchise juggernauts aimed at adults. Kids coming along for the ride is an added bonus, but by and large these are all adult franchises now.
This is a wild take to me. The products and media for adult collectors are the most visible to us, but no matter what is coming out there is always, always product and media for kid audiences, almost always in greater volume and range of offerings, and the bulk of the most expensive media is made to be friendly to all audiences. Every time there's a period where the adult-focused product is doing well and the GA and kid product is doing poorly, it is considered a downturn for that franchise. DC revamped their entire media content strategy because the only things doing well were Batman movies for sad adults, every single one of whom has a podcast where they suggest violations of the Geneva Convention against people who both like and dislike superhero movies. You think those are the people WB or Disney is banking the future on? An aging, unpleasable audience built inside a fan-outrage ecosystem dedicated to killing the fun around new franchise releases? That's not sustainable. ML could die tomorrow and there will still be unrecognizable lumps of $10 plastic for kids on the shelves labeled Spider-Man, Maybe? and they will make more on that in one year than all of ML made in five.
Regarding Power Rangers, the difference between that and G.I. Joe/Transformers is that's it's a media-first franchise. Joe and Transformers, you can always have those on the shelves because the characters and designs are evergreen and distinct. Power Rangers is always 5-6 similarly armored people and you need a show to tell you which one is your personality.
Without their media, would GI Joe and Transformers have gotten as far as they have? At a certain point, you don't need a media tie-in. The concept can sell itself at that point.
Besides, Power Rangers does have a media tie-in. It just happens that it's now airing overseas.
Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, just about any A-list superhero created in the 1960's or before. That was all kids' stuff before they morphed into franchise juggernauts aimed at adults. Kids coming along for the ride is an added bonus, but by and large these are all adult franchises now.
DC revamped their entire media content strategy because the only things doing well were Batman movies for sad adults, every single one of whom has a podcast where they suggest violations of the Geneva Convention against people who both like and dislike superhero movies.
Favorite.
Dragging out this old horse: Hasbro is challenged but brands are still a big deal for them. It'll be interesting to gauge their appetites for renewal pitch effort and negotiation. I think Star Wars is in more jeopardy than Marvel. By the numbers, here is Q3 performance for the "partner brands" segment, which to be fair is very broad and includes much more than just Star Wars and Marvel IP:
2020: $409.5 million in Q3 2020
2021: $409 million in Q3 2021 [stable]
2022: Q3 of $349.9 million [decline of 14.5% YoY]
2023: Q3 revenue dropped to $228.2 million [35% YoY decline, w/ Star Wars and Marvel name-checked]
2024: Q3 $228 million [stable]
So, not great, if the cost of the license is set based on rosier outlooks for entertainment. However, anyone bidding for the license would be facing the same headwinds. Or even greater, since at least the old dusty collectors would be reluctant to start over again with new product. Sky's the limit for anyone who wants to jump in with lower quality, higher margin product to move in greater quantities. But brand perception, and thus quality, will also factor into Disney's decisions to grant the license.
So the question is: can Hasbro diplomatically lowball Disney, particularly for the Star Wars license fees, given the very poor showing for entertainment over the past several years? And would someone else want it so badly they'd pay out the nose, even given the fact fans are becoming disenchanted in droves? Could be that Hasbro is the only one who shows up.
But oh yeah this is a Marvel board. From Disney's and Marvel's perspective, I'm sure they still think they're hot s*** given all the irons in the fire. So the question would be whether or how the license evolves, whether adult collectors are deemphasized given the low margins and high costs of maintaining a line like Legends, whether any new pitch refocused on kid product, etc. etc. Lots of variables, and probably a lot of corporate suitors for this property, relative to Star Wars.
If those are just 3rd quarter numbers, then yeah...that's a lot of money from licensed brands to just throw away and not renew. Disney may really try and package Marvel and Star Wars together. Years back, Lego didn't want the Marvel license, but Disney basically strong-armed them into it if they wanted to keep the SW license. Granted, the company relationships may have changed, but I can see something similar happening with the Marvel and SW licenses between Disney and Hasbro.
I imagine Disney/Marvel/Lucasfilm must realize they're box office hasn't been great, but how does that affect their merchandising demands from retail partners? Maybe they adjust expectations and lean more into evergreen (even comic) designs instead of banking too heavily on MCU designs for product. Who knows what their sales figures for each looks like, though. And I'm going to guess some of the kids lines outsell Legends. Granted, the kids lines die after a couple of years and something new rises in their place. Maybe they plan on kids outgrowing a kids line, so they're not as concerned as keeping a consistent-style kids line in place.
There aren't too many other toy companies who could properly handle the demands (even if lowered these days) of the Marvel and Star Wars licenses. Mattel. And maybe McFarlane. McFarlane's efforts for kids lines haven't exactly been great (smaller scale Avatar and DC stuff), so maybe the license would be parsed out and someone else gets the kids license. Maybe they'd have to do the same with Marvel. Mattel has been putting out some great MOTU product, between Origins and Masterverse. Masterverse in particular have been quite good. Haven't we been hearing that companies are finally realizing the size of the collector market is larger than they used to admit? So I can't see them pivoting away from a growing market.
one of the issues regarding Power Rangers from an action figure marketing perspective is that though the franchise ran successfully for more than 25 years or whatever that "golden era" of Power Rangers for each person - the set of Rangers that was airing when they were in that sweet spot from ages 4 to 8 or whatever - is different for everyone.
This for sure is the crux of how Power Rangers differs from Joe or Legends. No matter when you became a fan of G.I. Joe, fer instance, it was Duke, Scarlett and Snake Eyes.
I actually kind of see a very slight but similar angle in Marvel Legends where it feels like the designs skew more toward 90s and modern designs as opposed to my preferred 80s looks. I don't know if that's factual, but it would make sense if there's just a larger market of toy collectors in their 40s than in their 50s.
Hey everybody!
I put the entire rumor/leak list on Page 1.
one of the issues regarding Power Rangers from an action figure marketing perspective is that though the franchise ran successfully for more than 25 years or whatever that "golden era" of Power Rangers for each person - the set of Rangers that was airing when they were in that sweet spot from ages 4 to 8 or whatever - is different for everyone.
This for sure is the crux of how Power Rangers differs from Joe or Legends. No matter when you became a fan of G.I. Joe, fer instance, it was Duke, Scarlett and Snake Eyes.
I actually kind of see a very slight but similar angle in Marvel Legends where it feels like the designs skew more toward 90s and modern designs as opposed to my preferred 80s looks. I don't know if that's factual, but it would make sense if there's just a larger market of toy collectors in their 40s than in their 50s.
Dan and Ryan prefer the 1990's costumes, especially Ryan because of his love for the trading cards. I can totally see them in meetings pitching for the 90s.
Jesse/Disney/Marvel prefer modern costumes probably to coexist/cross promote/market with the actual comics. They have the ultimate say, so that's probably why we got figures like modern Daimon, Crystal, Lockjaw and many others.
Dwight seems to like everything, but if any of them were to skew classic, it would be him.
f how it works in the various Fwoosh forums over the years. What I recall is that they're a sub-contractor of Hasbro who gets the 7" scale, and they have a maximum number of articulation points they can implement. Hasbro is aware of what's in their pipeline, but I've never heard whether or not Hasbro can reject their ideas.
If anyone knows other aspects of how the Diamond license works or have heard different ideas about the points above then please do share.
If I remember correctly they have a limited number of figures they can make in a calendar year. They can't just make 60 a year or something.
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