@jakeekiss I agree, which is why I point to the Fortnite Motorboat as that was also a license (although I suspect a less costly one in terms of percentage and oversight) more than things like GI Joe.
Right, and you can't infer anything about one license from another other than there's some fee associated with both. The thing about the Fortnite boat too, is some portion of the development process might've been short-cut there simply because a 3d model of it already existed. They'd need to modify it, of course, but that's still potentially a factor helping production along (thus making it cheaper).
Though yeah, I suspect Disney licenses are more expensive at base and increasing over time.
Now I have no knowledge or expertise to back this up, but since we’re talking about, maybe someone can back me up.
But it seems like medium sized companies are best poised to give you the best bang for your buck. Companies like Jazwares.
Small companies like Fresh Monkey Fiction or even smaller just can’t offer the volume on their product to bring the price down to match retail, whereas a giant company like Hasbro has a lot of mouths to feed and has to cut costs/raise prices to make sure all their execs and production teams get their cut of sales.
Am I far off on that?
Then of course even within companies you have discrepancies between lines due to things like licensing fees. Where Classified gets tons of accessories for $25, Legends gets a moderate amount of accessories, and Black Series gets nothing. But that’s a different discussion.
Small companies like Fresh Monkey Fiction or even smaller just can’t offer the volume on their product to bring the price down to match retail, whereas a giant company like Hasbro has a lot of mouths to feed and has to cut costs/raise prices to make sure all their execs and production teams get their cut of sales.
Am I far off on that?
Sort of. One other big factor is whether or not the company has shareholders. Shareholders means you aren't the customer, the shareholders are, and the incentive is to increase value of the company, whether or not the customer gets good product. Not everyone at the company will think that way, but it will be a predictor of line-wide decision making.
The other thing is just that different companies have different bars for quality. For things like Boss Fight or 4 Horseman, it might be including pop-and-swapability, it might be about the materials they use (take an average Valaverse gun vs a Joe gun). It can be the articulation layout, the packaging, how big the wave is...
Every little decision in production is choosing which problems you want to deal with vs the moving target of what the market wants. There are almost none that are just a "make it cheaper" option unless it's simply leaving out certain things (paint, articulation, features, unique sculpts). Realistically, what the market really wants is the articulation range of imports, the paint apps of statues, durability of non-collector toys, the accessory loadout of GI Joe and the IP character selection of Hasbro... for under $25.
And like you said, within a company you can get different results. I'd argue the GI Joe folks are getting about as good as it gets for that price point. The Black Series seems anemic in comparison, but then outside of troopers/rereleases there's almost no reuse even possible. Marvel Legends is the midpoint between the two where reuse allows them to churn out way more product (and often with fewer paint apps), but still with fewer options for accessories.
As if on queue to add to the value discussion, check out what looks to be the GB Haslab.
The car with options to make it both GB 1 and GB 2 versions, proton pack rack, electronics, the 4 mains, the library ghost, Tully, and Slimer.
There's no way this comes in under $500. It could be closer to 800 or more.
I've said it elsewhere as well when comparing the G.I. Joe vehicle cost to a Marvel vehicle cost - in addition to the licensing fee and approval process - is the difference in reuse potential. G.I. Joe vehicles at retail can be priced lower because they can be recycled as repaints and sold again. Thus getting more bang for the sculpting buck. Every single Joe vehicle released to retail so far has been re-released with a repaint already. That isn't something readily available for a Marvel vehicle - so that drives up the cost of the initial offer price for a Marvel vehicle as well.
On an unrelated note - got my Lockjaw and Crystal delivered yesterday and I adore the set. I do think I see why they didn't do the bendable knees on Lockjaw... the body is so heavy and given the distribution I bet the knees might have collapsed under the weight if they were jointed and so this was better to keep a standing pose. If that's the case, I can forgive it I suppose. I do love it - though I do still wish they had included an alternate kirby style faceplate with the mustache.
I was surprised at how well Crystal turned out though. The brightest, crispest yellow and just really well sculpted and painted face. She's great. If she were a single pack figure I'd buy more.
@jakeekiss @boy_wonder I think there is truth to mid-size being the sweet spot - the larger the organization, the more things that need to be considered or reviewed or approved - sometimes good and sometimes bad - and also there it likely more comparison across lines and a broader strategy (for Hasbro, it is having all the 6" lines priced about the same.). Also, even if Hasbro thought the license to renew Star Wars was too high in a practical sense, they still have to consider what the impact on total revenue, etc., would be without it - that's where being publicly traded also comes into play.
The smaller companies can build out one or two lines and can focus on their own IP (4Hrosemen, Fresh Monkey Fictiom, Speiro, etc) if they want, so no licenses unless they decide to go that route. And if they want to sell one line at $20 and another at $40, no one is going to call a meeting to discuss price confusion and competing against themselves and so on...
I will also say this, I would assume it is a lot easier to do a toy license for something that is not an ongoing property like Marvel or Star Wars where are you dealing with new media to support, changing reference art, changing release timelines, aligning with the overall marketing/promotion plan and trying to gauge 12 months out how popular it all might be, etc. Compare the moving part for Hasbro getting out figures for the Avengers films to Boss Fight with Popeye - Boss Fight isn't exactly stressing over Popeye character embargoes, last minute design changes or making sure product is on shelves 2 weeks before a film premiere. That sort of synergy is why Hasbro and Mattel can get the big licenses, not just money, as they have the infrastructure to support all the stuff besides just making a cool figure.
@panthercult Yes, Star Wars is the perfect example of how they could make a X-Wing and then repurpose it 5 different times - they could break even at best on the first release in terms of all the development costs, and the next 4 it was minor tweaks. So that's a good point, they have to recoup everything on something like the Hellcharger from the first production run. (Maybe, they could sell it only in full flame mode first, and if popular enough, release a non-flame version later on - but they likely can't assume that in terms of budget).
Yes, Star Wars is the perfect example of how they could make a X-Wing and then repurpose it 5 different times
They sort of can't do an X-Wing at 1/12. Star Wars does have vehicle reusability, but basically only for speeder sized stuff and smaller (the stuff they've already done). X-Wings are twice as long as Snow Speeders and A-Wings, 41 feet long in world and almost as wide. Only way to even try is if they're scaled down so much that you'd notice it visually instantly.
The biggest they could probably reasonably do is TIE Fighters. There they tried, but they picked the wrong bet and went with new series instead of classic and it eventually went on deep discount. If they'd done a classic TIE first I think they'd have been able to maybe get to things like Vader's Tie, an Interceptor, maybe even a bomber.
But yeah, X-Wing is just size prohibitive, as are most of the hero ships.
As if on queue to add to the value discussion, check out what looks to be the GB Haslab.
The car with options to make it both GB 1 and GB 2 versions, proton pack rack, electronics, the 4 mains, the library ghost, Tully, and Slimer.
There's no way this comes in under $500. It could be closer to 800 or more.
I could be completely off base here, but I'm not 100% convinced those are 1/12th figures being shown. Look at the articulation on the main 4 figures. They look like they might be 1/18th figures. Not sure, though. I guess we'll know for sure when they get officially announced later this week.
I've bought everything so far from the Plasma (1/12th) Series, but I don't think I'll be buying this even if it is 6". I'm just not that big of a Ghostbusters fan to pay HasLab prices for anything from that franchise.
I could be completely off base here, but I'm not 100% convinced those are 1/12th figures being shown. Look at the articulation on the main 4 figures. They look like they might be 1/18th figures. Not sure, though. I guess we'll know for sure when they get officially announced later this week.
Pretty certain it's not 1/18, they released a 1/18 scale Ecto-1 this year and it's still available on Pulse. Compare the pics just of the proton pack rack to see how different the levels of detail are.
https://www.hasbropulse.com/product/ghostbusters-plasma-series-ecto1-1984/F98735L00
They sort of can't do an X-Wing at 1/12.
Yeah, I was thinking the heyday of the 1:18 scale not the potential for a 1:12 SW vehicles. In the 1:18 they were able to sell multiple versions for so many vehicles, up to things like the AT-AT. So talking more of the concept of reuse making it plausible to do larger (even in 1:18 scale) vehicles.
The licensing thing is killer - just saw someone ranting about the cost of the Lego Blackbird compared to other Lego sets of similar sizes and it's like: well, they pay the Disney tax on that one. Drives up the cost on everything.
Got Crystal and Lockjaw today. I do wish he had... knees, but that face is so lovable. Crystal's pretty perfect, too. Great set. I'll probably leave Lockjaw in standing position cos i'll be able to more with him that way and don't love swapping limbs over and over again.
Hilariously, I got Rawkis from GI Joe Classified today so I got two smush-faced pooches who look vaguely related on the same day. Guess they'll hang out.
@fac Ah yeah I see what you mean now. Seems the 1/18 vehicles are still the ones they get the most mileage out of, even when they're one-offs. Those Vintage collection Haslabs seem like they've been doing real well
The rumor is it's another Brother Voodoo variant. Wha-whaaa!
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