Not thicc enough!
If I remember correctly, that's actually what Spider-man was saying during that screencap.
Speaking of, it's canon that Angel is hung. Where's the bulge on the deluxe?
Also @aceofknaves you're totally right but something tells me most of the people on either side of the argument already know that. Some are not arguing in good faith.
I think there is some conflating around this discussion of whether "accurate" means "objectifying" in part because the vast majority of (or only?) instances where a character's costume seems to be modified for plastic form, due to how revealing it is, is for female characters. If we couldn't get Legends made of a shirtless Ka-Zar, Hulk or Shang-Chi, or basically in his underwear Weapon X Wolverine due to the outfit being too revealing, I think we'd hear the same complaints about accuracy being hampered over how much of the plastic figure was painted in skin tone vs costume tone.
Since this doesn't happen with the male character designs, we don't really have a true comparison point to see if the critiques would be the same or not. Consequently, the complaints about modification of some character's costumes only becomes an issue for the female characters as it is the only time it comes into play and it can start to be associated with collector's only commenting on female figures needing to look more sexy. (I happen to think the modifications makes sense as many of the female costumes are over the top. but that lies at the feet of the artists of the comics.) But given that, I think it is potentially unfair to suggest that it is only for salacious reasons collectors want characters to match their look in the comics - because in a real sense it is only an issue for one set of characters.
@fac I think the issue is that the costumes don't actually get modified for release, Hasbro just bases them on more conservative art. Even Hellcharger Goblin Queen; you can typically find the exact references the team "probably" used when designing any given figure. Calling them inaccurate isn't actually accurate, they're just inaccurate to the sexier portrayals, so people get annoyed.
I miss the guy who said that underboob was an integral part of Maddie's history and then wrote a lengthy dissertation with cited sources about how not including it was akin to character assassination.
@ctv That's fair as well, it is more the case they avoid some of the most revealing looks when choosing what to release.
@darkxorn The case could be made that her costume being so revealing was meant to reflect how out of character it was for Maddie - who was not portrayed prior to that as a character who wandered around in spandex but a normal person. So going more conservative undermines that a bit, if it becomes more of just an evil look than a seductive look. But in a practical sense, removing it from the design makes sense for the toy.
The visual character turn from woman wearing clothes from the 50% off rack at banana republic, to a tattered pleather costume with a bare midriff and thigh high boots, is more than enough for a 'good girl gone bad' indicator, but I digress, this was all previously covered in the EoV thread.
One of the funniest threads from the past 5 years too.
I want current Krakoan-era Goblin Queen.
Once upon a very long damn time ago, Stan Lee, a guy I'm sure you're all familiar with, wrote more comics for girls and young women than he did for boys and young men. True story. He did. And Timely/Atlas did all right with them, too. And then in 1961 Fantastic Four number 1 came out and the company struck Silver. $$$$$ Timely/Atlas became Marvel and superheroes became their bread and butter. Fans could not get enough but most of them did appear to be boys judging by the fan mail. Around 1972 Stan started to get concerned that he was losing the girls so he ordered a trio of new titles, all written by and starring women, to try and bring more female readers into the fold. And that's how The Claws of the Cat, Night Nurse and Shanna The She-Devil were born. I was a reader then and I knew those books weren't necessarily aimed at me but I enjoyed them all anyway. I especially liked Shanna. She wasn't about to take any crap, especially from any great white hunters.
Times change as they always do. The Direct Market came into existence, boomed and then pretty much became the only place fans could by comics. Which lead to comics looking like this:
That's from 2005 and yes I bought it, but I can definitely see where women would be put off by it. And consider the irony: Shanna was created specifically to try and bring in more female readers. That much cheesecake is NOT going to help and will probably have just the opposite effect.
Food for thought.
P.S. If I get a vote on which version of Shanna I would want as a figure, I would say Bronze Age all the way. But I skew classic anyway.
One last P.S.: Shanna was created by writer Carole Seuling (Ex-wife of distributor Phil Seuling, the man many credit with creating the Direct Sales Market) and artist George Tuska. The first issue was cover dated December 1972 so it probably went on sale in late August or early September of that year. I think I bought mine at a 7-11.
And no, Shanna didn't get a Slurpee Cup. Ka-Zar got one, though.
One thing we all agree on is that the female character should definitely be killed before she has any dialogue that isn’t about the male lead and her body should also obviously be left in his fridge.
"We want figures that match the art!"
Hasbro: Not a problem, here's Tigra in her iconic bathing suit!
"But that doesn't match the art I'm talking about, why is it not a thong and why is her top covering her entire breast?!? AND SHE NOT THICC"
Hasbro: Well because making characters in a 'cheesecake' manner for male gratification is no longer appropriate in 2024!
"HOGWASH. damn you woke soccer moms!!!!!"
How is "make the figure match the official comic art" a negative argument sometimes, and a positive argument other times? Feels very subjective.
Because the argument of "we just want the figures accurate to the source material" is a front, mainly brought up about female figures who were drawn in revealing and over sexualized costumes, just so you can get away with having your toys look "hot". It's not the get out of jail free card you think it is.
So why is Kazar ok?
Because muscles and six packs are not deemed by many to be sexual appendages in the same way buttocks or breasts are. The "double standard" rhetoric would only function if there wasn't a huge disparity between people asking for hotter females figures compared to hotter male figures.
Surely you knew this.
Surely.....?
My wife would disagree with you. So would several other women I know. But I think you know that people find six pack abs and muscles sexy. It’s all over ads, tv, movies. For whatever reason, you like to argue.
Also, some people here are acting like we’re asking for figures that look like how Bart Sears drew Power Girl. We’re not. We want them to look like they do in the comics. I get why they wouldn’t do comic Maddie. It’s pretty risqué. But Shanna shouldn’t be a problem. Classic Moondragon, not the thong version, shouldn’t be a problem. Gamora, etc. If I want TnA in plastic action figures, as someone else mentioned, it’s out there. I’m looking for Marvel figures that look the part. And I don’t buy the “it’s ok for men but not women” argument. People aren’t asking for “hotter” male figures because the figures look like they do in the comics already. But color a section of costume wrong or make a backpack on Iron Man the wrong shape and they freak out. But somehow that preference for comic accuracy is ok. And don’t get me wrong. They’re right. The figures should be made accurately. It’s just the difference in the response from some people that makes me shake my head.
I like to argue, you like to intentionally swerve around the issue, we all have our crosses to bear in this life!
I thought I addressed your issues. And I disagreed with your assumption on how the male and female characters should be treated differently. But at any rate, we’ll never see eye-to-eye on this. See ya around.
I think there is some conflating around this discussion of whether "accurate" means "objectifying" in part because the vast majority of (or only?) instances where a character's costume seems to be modified for plastic form, due to how revealing it is, is for female characters. If we couldn't get Legends made of a shirtless Ka-Zar, Hulk or Shang-Chi, or basically in his underwear Weapon X Wolverine due to the outfit being too revealing, I think we'd hear the same complaints about accuracy being hampered over how much of the plastic figure was painted in skin tone vs costume tone.
Since this doesn't happen with the male character designs, we don't really have a true comparison point to see if the critiques would be the same or not. Consequently, the complaints about modification of some character's costumes only becomes an issue for the female characters as it is the only time it comes into play and it can start to be associated with collector's only commenting on female figures needing to look more sexy. (I happen to think the modifications makes sense as many of the female costumes are over the top. but that lies at the feet of the artists of the comics.) But given that, I think it is potentially unfair to suggest that it is only for salacious reasons collectors want characters to match their look in the comics - because in a real sense it is only an issue for one set of characters.
A large part of this is what I’ve been trying to say, but you did so much more eloquently. Regardless, I’m dropping the matter. People want to think I’m a pervert because I like comic-accurate figures, well, I’ve been called worse.
Can we stop quoting entire conversations? They end up taking the entire page. Maybe a little quote discretion would be nice.
The factor to be remembered here is that Hasbro is a publicly traded company and is always going to play it safe with an action figure line that continues to be released at mass retail. If they can find source art with a more conservative costume that is what they are going to run with - especially when it comes to female figures since they still at least pretend that the line is aimed at young boys (and their moms with the purchasing power) at retail. You can dislike it - you can complain about it - but you aren't going to change it.
Latest Post: Daredevil Top 10 - Just For Fun! Our newest member: aajs Recent Posts Unread Posts
