Pro-wrestling Discussion

@fac Oh, yeah - the R-Truth thing is also incredible. I catch clips of that since I haven't been watching WWE.

Even MORE interesting about the Netflix deal is that, if what I'm reading is accurate, basically -everything- WWE will be on Netflix in Canada. Raw, Smackdown, NXT, PLEs, documentaries...   that's pretty cool, if true. But almost definitely means that Netflix overall is getting a huge price hike for 2025, or will officially start offering tiers of access and WWE content will end up locked behind a paywall.

Any Royal Rumble predictions?

I am pretty happy going into the Rumble that it is not at all clear who might win either Rumble.

My current thinking is that it will come down to Rhodes, Punk and Gunther, with Gunther standing tall on the men's side.

Why? 

I think Roman at this point holds to beat Hogan's record - so you need to stymie the Cody rematch a bit longer. The WWE way is to hold off on desired outcomes...

Since Cody beat Gunther last year to win the Rumble after Gunther started the match, I think you have Gunther go over Cody and face Seth at WM as teased on Raw this week - this also builds Seth's title as just as important as Roman's if Gunther pick's it, and lets you build Gunther as this is his logical next step. (At some point, Imperium vs Bloodline would be money) 

Have Punk and Cody both blame each other for blocking their path to WM due to how the RR goes (Cody to finish the story, Punk to main event) and that is a feud that can continue into Elimination Chamber...  and maybe they both lose again, so Roman faces someone unexpected at WM40, like Drew or Orton...and we get Cody vs Punk at WM in what they both feel is a consolation prize...and could lead to WM41 Punk vs Cody main event, with Cody the title holder.

Has Andrade shown up anywhere yet? I assume he will be a surprise entrant if he is back.

For the women, I assume Bianca, but I would not be surprised if Bailey fights through Damage Control and aims for Iyo... Then maybe you have a Rhea vs Becky vs Bianca triple threat...?

I doubt we get a Sasha Bank sighting, but expect Naomi to be back, and wonder if Alexa and Carmela will be cleared...

Will we get Rock vs Roman at WM40? I think the best use of the Rock would be to either a) get beat down so badly that Roman gets massive heat and Jimmy and Solo walk away, leaving Roman on his own as a Tribal Chief with no tribe, making him vulverable to Cody or b) you save Rock vs Roman until after Roman loses the belt, and Roman gets further humiliated and goes away after a loss to the true Tribal Chief for awhile. Because the end of Roman's story needs to be his redemption and return to humility and he comes out of this a face.

Posted by: @theknightdamien

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I catch clips of that since I haven't been watching WWE.

Today's news about the latest accusations about Vince makes me question supporting WWE until they remove him from any role**.  Disturbing to read the details, hard for me to even comprehend how, basically, the accuser was treated as a prostitute* on the payroll with Vince as the pimp. 

*Edit, this is how Vince treated her and probably lied to himself about it (if he had needed to lie to himself, he probably didn't need to justify it to his "conscience"), but to be more accurate she was a victim of being put in a position where she was abused and taken advantage of. I saw more details after I posted - he knew she was in a vulnerable situation and manipulated that to seem at first like he was helping her. It's really disgusting.

**And the people who knew and enabled it need to go too. I cannot accept the idea that some people were not appalled that Vince was sharing photos of this woman and basically offering her around. I would have thought that someone who he shared that stuff with would have said or done something. I think it is clearer now why Stephanie left so abruptly, she had to have learned the details and just couldn't deal with being there anymore.

I support certain aspects of the prostitution institution. But when someone is being forced or manipulated into it, that's a big no no. Like, if the girl or guy is of sound mind and has all their faculties, they can do what they want with their body, it's their choice. If they want to use it like that to make money, it's no different then OnlyFans or starring in Porn, it's just more private. But if they're manipulated or forced into these situations it's just wrong and someone needs to be held accountable. And Vince needs to get more then a slap on the wrist this time. Ejected from the company, fined, and probably jail time would be appropriate. Instead of a fake retirement and comes back 3 months later. And you have to be pretty fucked up in the head to use someone like he did like that.

My fave storyline right now is actually FTR and House of Black. Their matches are amazing, and Garcia is really coming into his own. Also, BCC making it their mission to destroy Kingston is pretty entertaining. Not that I hate Kingston, I'm indifferent to him. But watching how psychological Danielson can be is entertaining to me.

Not going to debate prostitution ethics, however I feel the flaw in the "it's their choice" is that there really is no way to know if someone is making a truly free "choice" or if they feel they have no other options to support themselves, or are being manipulated/forced by someone, or are supporting addiction or dealing with some other issues. So if supporting that behavior, hard to know what is the real situation and the impact on someone, either now or in the future.

Vince being out is a great thing. I am disappointed in myself that at times I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

Hard to know what people really knew at the WWE offices, including someone like HHH, Steph and Nick Kahn. I suspect to most of them it appeared as though Vince had created a job for his young, trophy girlfriend and may have assumed she was happy to have a sugar daddy, and then he had her sign an NDA to avoid embarrassment - unethical and sketchy but not criminal and immoral. 

Anyway, back to fantasy booking, I think the conclusion to the Rhodes vs Roman storyline should happen on the Sept 13th Smackdown, the date when Roman surpasses Hogan for title reign length. If you keep Rhodes away from Roman until then (loses out from RR and Elimination Chamber chances to get a shot), have Cody win MitB in July, and have Roman announce his first scheduled appearance after that to be the "celebration" of surpassing Hogan on Smackdown on Sept 13, and have Cody announce during Roman's party which kicks off the show, like a good face, that he is cashing in tonight and he will see him in the main event. And then have him take the title. Then later on you have Punk win the Rumble and the main event is Rhodes vs Punk for WM 41.

Yeah, I'm 100% supportive of people that willingly engage in sex work. That is 100% not what this is, though. The actions Vince is accused of are absolutely beyond vile and, if true, he should lose everything and be in jail for the rest of his life. But he won't, even though they probably are.
Vince has successfully skirted every single consequence of his horrible actions for decades. I have zero faith he'll ever be held accountable in any meaningful way. Just like Trump. It's just rich people paying fines for doing the kind of stuff the rest of us would be in jail for 50 years for doing.

That being said, I'm definitely even more comfortable not supporting WWE than I was before. It's not enough, to me, that Vince has resigned his positions. WWE should -publicly- denounce him and his actions, fully cooperate (for real this time) with investigations, and do their own internal investigation that removes anyone and everyone that knew about this and didn't come forward or actively participated.

While we're at it - AEW needs to do the same thing with Ric Flair and dump him in a swamp where he belongs.

In regards to wrestling I actually watch; Dalton Castle keeps getting better and funnier. Really glad to see BCG holding gold right now but I think Jay White is being done dirty by not holding a major singles title. Samoa Joe still sucks and should not be champion and his championship reign is easily the least interesting/most boring in AEW history that I can think of.

I'm really enjoying FTR/HOB, but I'm worried about it. HOB, in my opinion, are not being utilized properly. I've banged on about this before so I won't go too hard on it, but I just don't want to see them ultimately coming up short in EVERY feud because it makes them look impotent and fans just end up losing interest.

I really like FTR but HoB needs to win this. It's understandable that not everyone can have a belt, especially people that deserve it. There are just too few belts. But then people complain when they add one, and that's understandable. They have to be important not one for everybody. It's a really hard line to dance on.

I think HoB are fine for now. I wouldn't want Malackai to go for the belt right now cause we all know he's gonna lose. Joe just got it. He's gonna have it for a while. And if I had to guess, Adam Cole will probably be the one to take it from him. And Swerve should also get a shot with it, see how a run for him goes. OC is gonna lose his belt to Strong. They're gonna push Undisputed Kingdom hard for a bit.

Sting and Darby are probably gonna win the Tag Belts. And I hope I'm wrong about this, but then lose them to the Bucks, although it'd be better for Sting to retire with it and then Darby find a replacement. Vacating would also suck.

I think Christian will lose to Edge with a betrayel from Luchasaurus. I'm still wondering how they're gonna have E and C get back together after all this for Edge to have 1 last run with his best friend. Alot of this shit they're doing is hard to come back from, but it's happened before with other stories I'm sure.

I have no idea when but I have to assume Bullet Club is gonna turn on the acclaimed, again. The ass boys can't be trusted, neither can Switchblade, and I like Jay White lol.

I have more thoughts but not worth putting down really lol.

I'm gonna watch the Rumble tonight and see how I feel. If it's boring I'll probably stop with WWE again. They severely neutered Punk. I knew they would. But if he's happier there then he needs to do what's best for him. But if it bores me I don't have to watch lol. So far, nothing has really grabbed me in WWE. I'm still not really invested in anything. Truth and Judgement day is funny, but it's something I can live without.

Rumble was OK, I think the news created an overcast on it for me so never fully got into it. Thought giving Cody another hurdle for Roman would have made sense - but the one thing I dislike about the Rumble stipulation is that it's too long from the Rumble to WM to have a title fight locked in. I think there will be a swerve in the Cody v Roman match - maybe Rock is the guest ref and at the last minute screws Cody, maybe Priest tries to cash in, fails when Roman pins him, and that ends the match. Something. 

Not great a day news day for HoB or Punk. Punk supposedly out for months with a torn tricep - it was clear he hurt his arm but figured it was more like a stinger or something less serious as he finished the match. Meltzer is speculating that the HoB refused to do the job against FTR/Garcia in the cage match - which I suspect is totally wrong - I could see them trying to protect HoB with the escape stipulation, which is different than refusing to take a pin.

Lesnar apparently pulled last minute from the Rumble, replaced by Bron. I will be fine if we don't see Brock again. WM potentially losing two big matchups - Punk vs Seth (or Drew); Gunther vs Brock. If the plan was Punk vs Seth, I wonder if they pull Seth as well and let him have more time to recover.  

Will say this - WWE men's division is deep - still seemed like minimal filler even without Orton, AJ, Knight, KO, Seth, Rey, Street Profits, Solo, Shaemus/Brutes, Otis/Gable, Xavier Woods, Corbin, Ciampa, Gargano, etc. You could put on a decent PPV with just those names as a roster...

I heard Buddy and Malachai are both going back to WWE to be with their girls. And now that HHH is in control full time he could push Malachai, but as you said the men's roster is so deep they're gonna get lost in there. At least on AEW they've been main eventing. In WWE they'll do something small mid card and then disappear, which is a shame cause they're both really good. But it could be cool to see Cody vs Malachai again. I also don't know how it's possible cause I thought they had a contract into 2025 or some such. But who knows. 

Punk getting hurt sucks, I wonder if Drew did it on purpose. Cause he also hurt Rollins. Things like that have happend in the past. Drew may be pissed and either not focusing on not hurting people, or doing it to take their spot.

That Cage match was awesome. I liked it alot. I was surprised HoB lost though. They could do a stint against Marc Briscoe since he basically cost them the win. But, as I said above, half of them are probably leaving anyway.

I am hopeful for where things could go in WWE, without Vince being there at all. I watched the interview afterward and HHH said he sees something big on the horizon, like a new chapter. And it looks good. And their rosters are stacked so, who knows. I will continue to watch for now and see how it goes. But if it starts going to crap again I'll dip.

Honestly, the way AEW have used HOB makes me want to stop watching wrestling. It's just so disheartening and stupid. Doesn't surprise me at all that Buddy and Malakai might not see the value in staying with a promotion that clearly doesn't value them.

AEW and WWE both have a bloat problem. There's just too many talented people to effectively use them all WHEN you insist that top talent have to constantly be visible. There's just no room for anyone else with that kind of mentality. But even taking a better approach is hard because if you fill up your programming with all of your best guys and give them all storylines and whatever, then there's no time left for up-and-coming talent and strong B listers to shine.

It's tough and I don't know what the answer is. There's already too many hours of wrestling to keep track of every week. I can't imagine either company adding another show. As it is Collision basically killed Rampage, Dark, and Dark Elevation. My wife and I actively fast-forward through matches we -would- watch but can't because we have to trim time somewhere and not everything makes the cut anymore.

I think there is no chance that Drew intended to hurt Punk. Drew may have some legit gripes with various folks, but I have never read anything to suggest that he is unprofessional and not a safe worker.

Both companies would solve their bloat problem if they had wrestlers only work a maximum of 8 months out of 12 and rotated people in and out of the spotlight more. Everybody would be well served by being off the show for a month or two or more at various points in the year. 

I thought Malakai made the right choice to leave WWE when he did, AEW was hot and I thought they'd do more with him (and Miro and Claudio), and they have to some extent, but they are still mid-card acts. Which is fine, but I suspect they all maybe thought they'd be more than that in AEW. I generally don't like the brooding/mysterious/esoteric characters all that much (that type of character doesn't work well with many other character types, at least to me) but if you go that route, you need to be portrayed as a stone-cold killer who backs it up by winning a lot. 

I am a Buddy fan, but I am not sure he has the on-screen charisma to rise much higher, despite having a prototypical WWE physique. I would however 100% love if he came back as Dom's sister's boyfriend to play off that angle from a while back, and then steal Rhea from Dom, breaking his sister's heart... 

Edited to add: I should also note that I can't feel too bad for guys who are either married to Zelina Vega or have dated/are dating Alexa Bliss and Rhea Ripley. 

I loved Drew's promo on Punk last night. I love a great wrestling match as much as the next guy, but I also love things like this:

"I’ve never been much of a spiritual person.

But I want you to know this - I prayed for this, and it happened.

I couldn’t sleep that night [after the Rumble], I was so angry with myself. Then I heard the news [about Punk's injury] the next day, and I slept like a baby last night."

Makes me want to see more of No F's given Drew and also makes me want to see Punk come back and get revenge - which is wrestling at its finest.

I didn't think Drew was that kinda way either. Which is why I'm wondering how he hurt 2 of the people he apparently doesn't like within a matter of a couple weeks. But maybe it was just an accident. Or maybe not. We may never know.

And I hope Punk does come back, but if I'm noticing anything, it seems Punks body may not be able to take it anymore. He spent most of his AEW tenure out with injury. And now he's had what, 2 matches? And one was against Dom so that really doesn't count.  And he's hurt again. He was great in his prime. But I think his body may just be failing him, especially since he wasn't really conditioned like most of the other wrestlers nowadays. Doesn't work out constantly, doesn't take steroids (which is good), and he was gone for like 7 years. His body just isn't used to this anymore. And he's not getting any younger. I kinda feel like that's what happend to Cena, and his body was conditioned well. Just started getting hurt too easy, and healing too slow. The mind may be willing but the flesh can be weak and flabby lol. They probably need to put Punk on the same kinda contract The Rock has. Shows up once or twice a year around the big PPVs, have a short-ish match that doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things, and takes the rest of the year off to do his own shit. Or have him be a manager. He can still throw verbal jabs like he used to, if they'd let him anyway. But he's been neutered since coming to WWE. Or even commentary. I have a feeling that's where Jerichos going when he's done.

I also think it may be happening with Danielson too. He's been getting hurt more then some others as of late too. But he goes hard. Probably a good idea he's gonna stop going full time later this year. And I love watching Darby, but he's gonna kill himself before he's 35. He's gonna do one of those missile dives wrong and break his neck. Or he's gonna agree to do something crazy and die when he hits the ground.

I genuinely laughed so hard when I saw that Punk is injured again. I really shouldn't. It's cruel to take any kind of delight or humor from someone being legitimately hurt. But goddamn, dude. This guy can't have more than two or three matches without SERIOUSLY injuring himself. At what point do you say 'either I have to train harder, or I have to stop.' Because whatever he's currently doing isn't working for keeping his body strong. Or maybe he's training too hard. I mean, he looks great (he's always been soft in the middle and that's not an indication he isn't working out). Maybe he's pushing too hard in the gym to be in TV shape and not leaving enough in the tank for when he's actually on TV?
But yeah. .I laughed. Legitimately laughed aloud. Mostly because it's just so goddamn absurd for this to keep happening. I guess the good thing here is that he wasn't in any major storylines or carrying any titles, so it's much easier for the company to work around it.

And yeah, Danielson is probably only getting hurt so often because he's just going fucking hard night after night.

I also don't think Drew intentionally injured anyone. But I genuinely would not be surprised if he was getting a bit careless because he's frustrated. Drew has been on track to be a major player several times and every time he gets derailed. I'd be frustrated too.

Totally agree that a drastic cut to how many days per year wrestlers actually work would do a lot for rotating talent around. Although I'm sure the counter-argument to that is how long one or two months, or more, can feel in TV time. Some fans have short memories and only ask 'but what did you do for me recently?' no matter how good you are. So a shortened schedule and a sizable off-air chunk of time every year would really only work for the truly top guys that can go away and come back without missing a single t-shirt sale, if you follow me. And there's precious few of those because WWE and AEW are famously shit at building talent long-term.

While I largely agree that you have to back up a 'scary' character by making them win a lot, I think there's some nuance there. You can have them 'win' without winning matches. Turning people to your side by forcing them to use the kind of brutality you use when they swore not to. Psychologically beating them even in your victory so that they're not the same person going forward into other feuds. Stuff like that. HOB actually did play around with these types of ideas during some of their earlier losses, but now it just feels like they just regular lose, and that sucks. Huge waste of four really talented people.

When's the last time Julia even had a singles match? AEW has, once again, just no idea how to use all the talent they have. I don't even want them to get Okada because I don't want to see him wrestling once every two months in a random trios match on Collision.

If Okada goes to WWE they'll bury him though. As said earlier, their roster is stacked. And they don't have the best track record with Japanese talent. I'm surprised the women's tag and women's smackdown Champs are Asian honestly. I'd like to see more of it, but until very recently, this has not been the case in the big E.

On the other hand, Tony books Okada for main event killings when he's around. And dude lives in Japan. If he signs with AEW he could probably do what Pac does. Come in for a couple months, go home and do his own shit, collect a paycheck, rinse repeat. And if he does AEW he can still go do other promotions. If he goes to the E, it's either there or nowhere (maybe impact now, but honestly, that's a bit of a step down for someone like Okada). Even when he got hurt, Danielson and him put on a fuckin banger. He doesn't have to do that evey time he shows up, but as long as he's not doing Ibushi levels of random medicore garbage (outside the one blood and guts match), Okada will do fine in AEW methinks.