Pro-wrestling Discussion

It's always sad when someone comes to the end of a long life like Funk, but it's tragic when it occurs in someone young like Bray with a family and small children. 

All In has one really well done and entertaining storyline in MJF & Cole. Not sure about the rest, I'm sure most will be good matches but the Omega / Callis feud has too many players involved (I think Heenan vs Hulk was the model for manager vs wrestler, you need the manager to keep bringing in a new guy to take out the wrestler, where it is clear the manager is obsessed) and the BCC flounders without Danielson. Many folks dislike the "battle royale" that WWE does, but it gets people on the card somewhat naturally for the payday and exposure - but AEW to me puts together too many 4 on 4 and 5 on 5 matches that dilute the feuds/storylines.

WWE may have the problem of too many stories and too much of the talent getting hot. I think they need to have Roman lose the belt just for a month or two and get it back - I think the story needs a little push at this point where Roman seems dominant on his own again, where his back is against the wall. I also think they need to move ahead with Judgement Day splitting - in fact I am going to predict that Nakamura beats down Seth, but Priest cashes in for the title. I feel like they wouldn't be harping on Seth's back if they aren't preparing for him to be out for a bit and want to move on to Priest. Lashley and the Street Profits could be a great stable, especially if they pull in Bianca. I am wondering if they are positioning LA Knight for the US Title with the idea that the Miz will be his nemesis for awhile, maybe with Theory and Waller aligned with Miz as almost a manager/mentor type.

While Funk's passing IS sad, the man has been in declining health for a while, and his age was always going to be a factor at some point in that equation.

Bray's passing is more tragic IMO.

Watching this tribute video really hit me.

https://twitter.com/WWEonFOX/status/1695226958244692236?t=4swtWvLX5xEjiKLxoFz6gw&s=03

I'm thankful for the time I had to enjoy his work, and I hope his family and friends can regale his young children with stories about their father to give them a better idea of who he was.

I'm never good at finding words that don't sound cliche or lame to express 'sucks that X died.' So.. sucks about Bray. He was incredibly talented on the creativity side of wrestling and I enjoyed virtually everything he did in WWE. An absolute shame and we've been robbed of what I'm sure would have been some really incredible stuff in the future.

I won't go into a big detail diatribe right now but All In London was pretty incredible. My two big niggling points that are bothering me a lot; Moxley's match shouldn't have even happened for many reasons we've all discussed before and all it did was waste time better spent on better matches AND.. one women's match on a four hour card. Do the fuck better, AEW.

I appreciated not splitting up Cole and MJF just yet. There is more to pull from that storyline. (Having said that, I thought MJF maybe oversold his "conflicted reluctance" to hurt Cole at times)

I watched the pre-show live and some highlights later, it was impressive to fill Wembley and the shots really showed how huge the crowd was, definitely a big moment for AEW. (Having said that, I can't believe watching a wrestling match from the back row of the top level is all that great)

One thing I do like about AEW is that they will put the hometown faves over - I think WWE overthinks that and believes if their hometown hero loses, those fans will have more reason to come back again - and I think it is especially bad given that some kids are there for their local idol. (Having said that, Hunter let Edge go over in Toronto so maybe that mindset is changing.)

I would have put good money on FTR losing in case they have fallout from the Wheeler incident. 

I will be curious to see how All Out does, feel it is asking a lot to do two shows so close together. 

On the WWE front, enjoying Miz vs LA Knight so far, and Miz doing the impersonation on Raw was great trolling.

I think the bigger potential issue for All Out is that it doesn't feel like we're going to get a lot of 'PPV Quality' matches on it. These are matches we could see on any episode of Dynamite. Now, that's probably not entirely fair because I've often said AEW puts PPV-quality matches on their regular TV programming so.....

But you know what I mean, I think. There's not much 'big match feel' to Soho/Statlander (and I'm a HUGE Statlander fan) or to yet another four-way tag match, regardless of the participants. And I certainly don't care about Takeshita v Omega and, judging from the reactions he gets, neither does anyone else.

Obviously with All Out being so close to All In, it's hard to put together meaningful storylines that people are going to care about in the same way as the stuff in All Out - some of which was brewing for months. Punk/Starks was rumoured to originally be planned for All In as well but, let's be honest, who cares about Starks? He gets heel heat against good faces and face pops against good heels, but I don't believe the audience genuinely cares about him at all, and Punk vs. Starks just isn't a headlining match.

So what does All Out have going for it? What matches can you put on that make it worth following, and more importantly make it worth 'buying' rather than watching for free on a Wednesday, Friday, or Saturday evening.

And yeah, I think the ONLY thing that really surprised me at All In was FTR retaining, given that Cash is apparently a douchebag.

I don't think Cash is a douchebag necessarily, considering we don't know the whole story. Maybe he felt threatened? Maybe he thought the other guy was gonna pull a gun first? I don't think we'll ever know the whole story. But if he is a douchebag, that is literally 90% of humanity anymore, wrestlers included. I absolutely belive most of them are probably ass holes, with big egos. Doesn't mean they're not good at what they do. And I'm glad FTR won. I like the bucks less and less every time I see them. Kenny is fine, he's a great wrestler and I heard he's actually a stand up guy. I'm indifferent to Hangman, I couldn't care less about anything he does. But the bucks just ooze douchebag. Matt more then Nick, but even when they're playing face you hear them in the ring when they do 1 of the 4 moves they know and they're like "go to hell" and "you're done" like heels would do. Even watching the show they did for behind the scenes when they were doing interviews, they just talked like arrogant ass holes.

And the BCC needs to stop losing. They're some of the best wrestlers in the world and they keep getting beat by lesser talent. I get putting guys over, but they're supposed to be the next big faction after the JAS became a joke squad, they need to dominate. I like best friends and OC, don't get me wrong, they should've been Tag Champs at least once already. But beating the BCC twice, right after the Elite did it at blood and guts, was just the wrong move imo. And at all out Mox is probably gonna win the belt off OC, which is not how that feud should go. Yuta should've won it. Mox is a little too big for that belt. I love alot of things AEW does. But some of their decisions are head scratchers. Also don't be surprised if this Punk angle is a work and he shows up at all out somehow and turns full heel cause of Jack Perry's childish ass. Course he probably won't go heel in Chicago, but he will still most likely show up to do something.

Punk situation not a work, as they announced he has been released, with cause.

Really a disappointing situation all around. Punk was biggest at a time I was on a break from wrestling so I have little nostalgia for him, but he did bring something to AEW. While I think Punk probably had justifiable reasons to be annoyed with some of the folks backstage, he also seemed incapable of walking away or seeing that he was doing the same thing at times he was mad at others for doing. Hard to know how things went this past weekend, but I felt he was out of line last year in the news conference and shouldn't have come back after that, depending on how the brawl actually went.

Anyway, I hope someone has considered the possibility his anger/confrontation/ego issues are CTE related, given the potential for brain injury from wrestling. From a distance, he doesn't seem like he is fully in control of his emotions when under stress.

Yea I saw they released him. Some people think he may go to WWE now, but who knows. Honestly Jack Perry should've been fired too. But he's all chummy with the Bucks, so he just gets suspended. I do know though, their ratings are gonna take a hit. Collision is probably gonna be a dumpster fire for a while now since it looked like Punk was kind of influencing the creative there.. And I think this may be their last big thing in Chicago for a while. I haven't watched any of the Chicago stuff this week yet, but after the Punk firing, the crowd may be unruly. I'll still watch, but it definitely wasn't the same for me when he was out for those 7 months or whatever, and now if he's gone permanently, my attention to it is probably going to dwindle. And honestly I'm not sure why. It's not like Punk brought any spectacular matches. He had some good ones, but some were mediocre. AEW reinvigorated my love for wrestling after WWE got stale af (i was falling asleep watching it). So it's not like I didn't like AEW before he got there. I unno, maybe it's like, I enjoyed it, but when Punk got there and Danielson got there it was like a huge boost. And now it feels like it'll be missing something. Like having cheesecake. Then having really good fuckin cheesecake. Now I have to go back to regular cheesecake? That's the best way I think I can explain it.

Dammit now I want cheesecake.

Posted by: @trunks3540

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Yea I saw they released him. Some people think he may go to WWE now, but who knows. Honestly Jack Perry should've been fired too. But he's all chummy with the Bucks, so he just gets suspended. I do know though, their ratings are gonna take a hit. Collision is probably gonna be a dumpster fire for a while now since it looked like Punk was kind of influencing the creative there.. And I think this may be their last big thing in Chicago for a while. I haven't watched any of the Chicago stuff this week yet, but after the Punk firing, the crowd may be unruly. I'll still watch, but it definitely wasn't the same for me when he was out for those 7 months or whatever, and now if he's gone permanently, my attention to it is probably going to dwindle. And honestly I'm not sure why. It's not like Punk brought any spectacular matches. He had some good ones, but some were mediocre. AEW reinvigorated my love for wrestling after WWE got stale af (i was falling asleep watching it). So it's not like I didn't like AEW before he got there. I unno, maybe it's like, I enjoyed it, but when Punk got there and Danielson got there it was like a huge boost. And now it feels like it'll be missing something. Like having cheesecake. Then having really good fuckin cheesecake. Now I have to go back to regular cheesecake? That's the best way I think I can explain it.

Dammit now I want cheesecake.

I HIGHLY doubt he goes back to WWE proper. He worked for FOX on the aftershow deal, so it wasn't really WWE. With Trips in control and head of creative, I do not see that happening, as Punk HATES him, and in part, blames him for what happened when he was there years ago.

It always sounded like Punk didn't really need the money, so unlike many wrestlers not sure he needs to find a new gig. So I doubt WWE happens - unless he wants to try to go out on his terms.

If he did go to WWE, I suspect it would be in the current Brock/Cena/Edge mode of a couple of months and limited dates, not the weekly grind, maybe two or three programs and PLE only matches.

Depending on how much he and WWE might want to stick it to AEW, him showing up with the "real AEW championship" like Medusa/Alundra Blaze - but unlike that scenario defend the "real AEW title" on the WWE shows, would be carney enough to be amazing - but I am sure it wouldn't be legal so won't happen.

But honestly, unless he was willing to be fed to Roman or Gunther or Seth, not sure WWE needs him.

Posted by: @theknightdamien

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I think the bigger potential issue for All Out is that it doesn't feel like we're going to get a lot of 'PPV Quality' matches on it. These are matches we could see on any episode of Dynamite. Now, that's probably not entirely fair because I've often said AEW puts PPV-quality matches on their regular TV programming so.....

Was looking at the card just now and I think there is a lot of filler, which is unnecessary given you don't need 10+ matches every time. Half the matches seem like they'd be on a regular AEW/ROH show - and barely the main event level:

Samoa Joe vs. Shane Taylor

Miro vs. Powerhouse Hobbs

Kris Statlander vs. Ruby Soho

Luchasaurus vs. Darby Allin

MJF & Adam Cole vs. Dark Order (John Silver & Alex Reynolds)

I like many of those participants but three of those are for TV titles that really shouldn't be PPV matches (in my opinion, if you have TV titles, the whole idea is those are titles defended on "free" TV, otherwise what's the point?) and Shane Taylor, Dark Order and even Ruby at this point don't seem like legit challengers. Luchasaurus v Allin seems like it has to be setting up the real match that adds Sting and Cage. Miro has had a nice build vs Hobbs, so including that may be unfair, but not sure it sells the show.

Danielson coming back to face Starks is a nice twist but how does it fit with the rest of BCC being heels at this point? 

Once again, I think the wrestlers will deliver but not sure the consecutive weekend show concept is working.

@trunks3540 Cash is absolutely a douchebag. Douchebags carry guns around readily accessibly while they're driving and threaten people with them. Nothing about the filings we've seen even remotely suggest the victim was threatening Cash with a firearm of his own, so I don't even want to hear that 'well maybe he felt threatened' bullshit that only works in the worst places in the US.

If the argument in his favor is 'lots of people are douchebags' - I'm not sure that's the slam dunk you think it is. Because yeah.. lots of people, especially lots of Americans with guns, are fucking pathetic losers. I hope Cash gets help and becomes a better person, but right now I don't want to hear any excuses for waving deadly weapons around just because someone cut you off in traffic or whatever.

EITHER way.. none of this is about FTR's abilities as a tag team. The surprise of them retaining isn't because they're bad wrestlers. It's because virtually everyone knows that it's common practice to take people out of the title picture and out of active storylines when there's the real possibility they won't be available. For example, Jeff Hardy 400 different times across four different companies. Or the whole thing they did with AR Fox prior to Wembley because they found out he can't travel internationally.

Also.. I think the BCC needs to lose more. And then break up. Because Moxley fucking sucks and he's ruining Wheeler and Claudio by association. Those are two guys I want to watch but I end up skipping all of their matches because of Moxley. He just turns red immediately, puffs around trying to look hard, and bleeds all over the place. Every time. He's awful. And the BCC should have broken up weeks ago. Without Bryan and Regal, they don't make sense anyway.

I'm hoping the returning Bryan just ignores the BCC completely and they all go their separate ways. This should have been a vehicle to get Yuta over, but Moxley, as always, had to whinge and whine his way into the spotlight and Yuta just ended up becoming the BCC's designated jobber. It's terrible. One of the worst runs of a faction in wrestling history and please just let it end.

And the Punk angle is definitely not a work. But damn do I love cheesecake. Like.. so much. It's the best kind of cake. I'm trying to stay fit and watch my calories, so I don't really need to be sitting here thinking about cheesecake. Yet.. .here we are. Maybe if I just get a small one....
Count me as also not thinking Punk is going to be running off to WWE. If anything, I could see this souring him on wrestling again and him just appearing on countless podcasts to complain, or disappearing like he did for like the 3-4 years prior to his AEW debut.

I'm a huge fan of Punk. Always have been ever since his ROH days. His return to wrestling was borderline magical. Just so much wasted potential here, and I blame Punk entirely. From basically all reports, even the ones that defend him, he's become a whiny, entitled little bitch that can't handle anyone not liking him and disagreeing with him. In the very brief time he was actually backstage with AEW, he got into TWO fist fights. He's the common dominator. And part of me thinks he wanted to get fired because he doesn't know how to handle the fans still not being 100% behind him again after all his bullshit.

@fac I think MJF/Cole is PPV worthy just because of who they are and what -their- storyline is. No offense to the Dark Order, but their opponents don't even matter. This is all about the storyline of whether or not they're going to stay together and AEW wants to keep the tension on and make us wonder if/when they'll betray each other. Or rather who will betray who. So I can see an argument that their match is PPV worthy SOLELY because of the emotional investment fans have in them right now.

Miro/Hobbs has been built up a fair bit. I imagine putting them on a PPV is sort of an apology. Hobbs had a lot of build for a while and then was just stalled out by AEW having such a huge roster. And Miro was a big name for them for a while and, again, his return was kind of overshadowed by all the other huge names. There is a lot of potential in this feud though.

Statlander/Soho feels like a Rampage match.
I couldn't care less about anything Joe does and I really don't think this match in particular belongs here.
Lucha/Allin is another one where it seems more like Allin is just buddies with Khan so he's being thrown a singles PPV match that no one wants to see. Allin's star has already fallen and honestly, I don't think I'd care if he disappeared and never came back. The more I see him, the more I think the only saving him is a full heel turn because he already comes off as an entitled, arrogant POS.
Even Danielson/Starks doesn't feel marquee because Starks is a B-lister cosplaying as an A-lister right now. Feels more like what would work as an enhancement match where Starks loses to Bryan, but is really impressive in the match and earns some peoples' respect. Kind of like what they did with Yuta.
I don't think he should beat Danielson, though.

Anyway.. yeah.. the whole card feels like they just jammed a random episode of Dynamite against a random episode of Rampage and called it a PPV. There's nothing here I'm really excited for EXCEPT maybe seeing if anything goes down between MJF and Cole (but, again, I don't actually care about the Dark Order guys at all -- that act is also stale and needs to change).

Dark Order are apparently heels now after they got their "Dark Side" back after the last RoH PPV. So I guess thats the change they decided to go for. Whether it works or not who knows. After Huber died they kind of became a goofy job squad, and I doubt they'll ever live that down. I'm indifferent to their existence at this point as well.

I wasn't really trying to make excuses for Cash. I was basically saying who knows what happened. We probably won't ever know the whole story. But I wouldn't be surprised either way, because of how people as a whole are nowadays. If he did do it unprovoked, then he deserves whatever they decide to give him as punishment. But we shouldn't be the ones to judge that, cause we just don't know. That's like with alot of things. Like the Punk backstage heat, or the Andrade stuff. I can absolutely see Punk being a complete twat though. I always liked him, but if he's just impossible to work with, then they should've let him go. We'll get used to the worse cheesecake. It's not like it's bad, it's just not the same. Collision especially without his input. With him at the reigns it was better then dynamite. Now who knows what'll happen. It'll need to find a new groove. Or a way to get it's old one back.

I've always liked Mox but I wasn't considering him as one of the best wrestlers when I made that comment. He's not in that echelon. I was meaning Claudio, Yuta, and Danielson. He definitely bleeds too much but I think they may be using it as more of a running gag now. Like people were complaining about it, so they just fed into that and now they make it a joke. Even the announcers sometimes say stuff like "well Mox is bleeding again, it must be a day that ends in Y." That was a line from not too long ago by Excalibur lol. But as a whole I like all the BCC members and it has been my fave faction on AEW so far. Their stories are usually good and most of their matches are above average. Plus Danielson is probably in my top 5 fave wrestlers of all time. Anything he does is gold. That's my personal opinion anyway. Other people will say different.

@trunks3540 Yeah, I'm sympathetic to the desire people have to keep the Dark Order around because it's seen sort've as Brodie's legacy. But, not to be crass, that's just not how wrestling works. You can't just keep these guys together because there's a feeling of guilt in disbanding the group. But in reality, they're doing more of a disservice to Brodie's memory with the farce that is the current Dark Order than they'd be doing by just having the group split up.

Especially now when some members have left the group and others don't even work for AEW anymore. Turning them heel isn't going to do anything. Frankly.. no one cares about any of those guys anyway. Better to repackage them and let them do something different rather than more of the same but like.. bad guys now.

Let me clarify about Cash; there's NOTHING to indicate he was threatened or had a gun pointed at HIM. He pointed a gun at someone else. Full stop. I don't really need to know any more than that to make a judgement on how I currently feel about him. If something absolutely wild comes out that exonerates him, I'll be happy to say I was wrong. But as of right now, and for as long as we have no other information, I'm going to go with 'he's a piece of shit.' Because that's how I feel about gun-toting losers.

Danielson also has a fantastic mind for the business, and the word now is that he's taking over basically running Collision. We're in good hands, I think. Because I agree with you - everything he does is gold. He's one of the best wrestlers -ever-. Not just today. Ever. He deserves every accolade he gets and I'm super glad he's with AEW and I believe he'll steer the company in the right direction as long as he's around.

I'm a huge fan of Claudio and Yuta as well. I wouldn't say Yuta is upper level, but he's solid and has a lot of potential. I was so glad when Claudio showed up because I felt like he was going to get the treatment he deserved but never got in WWE. And really.. he hasn't. He's Yuta's babysitter and Moxley's arm candy. That's about it. Just another example of Moxley just ruining whatever he touches.
I should clarify that though -- I think Moxley is technically a fantastic wrestler. He just doesn't know how to put a match together because he's so obsessed with looking 'tough' all the time. Constantly has to engage in this ridiculous punishment on himself and others, has to brawl outside the ring ALL THE TIME.. just whatever he can do to make the wrestling not wrestling, and it's not enjoyable to watch (for me). His assertion that a wrestling match should always look like a weapons-out street fight is ridiculous and stupid, and seems to demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of what professional wrestling even is.

Frankly... Moxley was better in WWE, because in WWE had was a little dog in a big pond, or something like that. He was TOLD what to do. He has way too much freedom in AEW and that has caused all of his weaknesses to become far too prominent. And it just reminds me of when Stone Cold asked him to find that other gear and the interview went way off the rails becaus Mox doesn't have another gear that isn't "bleed all over people."

But yeah, it's obviously a joke at this point. It's just a bad joke and it only keeps going because of Moxley's fucking ego.