Great post.
I will never understand this strange fascination with having every figure line match Marvel Legends...why can't ML exist over there as 6" ML, while DC Multiverse exists over here as 7"? Why do they have to match? Why does every figure line have to "fit in with Marvel"?
I don't expect Mattel to put things out like that Dick Grayson Batman they did at the end (perhaps the worst figure I've ever purchased). However, I do expect them to put out figures similar to their Masterverse / New Eternia / whatever it's called now, and while those are fun toys that I would be happy to buy for my kids they aren't the type of collectible I want to put on my shelf. McFarlane Toys has never been in the business of making kids toys, but that's pretty much all Mattel does. Pick up a random Mattel figure and a random McF DC figure and you can feel it before you ever even try to pose them. One is made for collectors, the other for kids, and while McFarlane had misses mixed in with the hits at least they were all made for the adult collector.
Followed up by another great post! 👏
Seeing tons of the same groupthink everywhere just wanting 6 inch so they can pow wow disPlay with their Legends or to continue their DCUC.
Most likely Mattel wants to do something different with a new line maybe Masterverse size.
I’ve been thinking about this and I one of my biggest problems with Mattel getting the DC license back is that it just all seems pretty underhanded to me. Todd's definitely getting shafted and bulldozed by a huge corporation that has nearly unlimited funds to crush him with.
Mattel had the DC license for well over a decade and eventually ended up running it into the ground and then basically abandoned it for the most part.
Then McFarlane scoops up the DC license and he takes it and transforms DC Multiverse from a dying brand into one of the best selling action figure lines around.
Then after Todd does all the work salvaging the brand and making it into something hugely successful, oops here comes Mattel out from under a rock and they suddenly want it back (now that it’s profitable again). So they use their influence and big bank account to snatch the DC license back from McFarlane. Like some kid who threw out their toys and now wants them back after they see another kid playing with them. And that’s not even mentioning how WB screwed over Todd and threw him under the bus. Talk about gratitude and loyalty.
I know that it’s just business, and business is business and all that, but that kind of thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. All I can say is that Mattel had their chance with DC and blew it, so now they think they can just step in and profit off of someone else’s hard work and success. I think WB may not realize how many fans McFarlane’s DC line has out here.
Listen... I know you are a McFarlane guy and so yours is always going to be a McFarlane biased take - but you're actually revising history here and getting facts wrong to fit your "poor Todd" victimization narrative.
Mattel didn't abandon the DC license. They were in fact surprised and disappointed when it wasn't renewed in 2019. Industry word, in fact, is that Todd didn't outbid them for the license 6 years ago - Mattel offered more but that DC thought it might be time to try a different direction. There is speculation there may have been a nudge in Todd's direction by DC Comics Publisher and Todd pal Jim Lee. There was word at the time Jim Lee was going to be doing some art for a Spawn 300 in 2019- a true rarity for Lee to work on a non-DC title...
Mattel has wanted the DC license back since they lost it - and with what I guarantee are diminishing sales returns on McFarlanes DC figure line - this time DC had to go with the money. Todd isn't getting screwed. But it's true he ultimately can't compete in a bidding war with a global conglomerate like Mattel.
So, I get you're disappointed - but Todd didn't 'get screwed over' any more than Mattel did 6 years ago. It's all just business.
Me, I'm hopeful Mattel will make DC figures I want to buy. McFarlane rarely ever did.
I unapologetically want a DC line that fits in both aesthetically and articulationally with Marvel Legends, because having Thor and Superman fighting Doomsday while looking like they fit (reasonably) within the same line is as self explanatory as it gets.
Honestly for me, it's less about DC and Marvel being the exact same scale (although I prefer it), it's much more about the fact that I had been collecting DC 6" figures for so long (15ish years) before McF took the license. The change in scales is certainly fine for someone who is just starting their collection (what do they care at that point?), but it absolutely sucks for someone who had already invested thousands of dollars in a line at a specific scale. At that point I already had hundreds of DC figures at a certain scale and the last thing I wanted to do was start completely over or buy figures that didn't go with what I already had. That's why the 7" thing pissed me off so bad personally. Nothing that McF ever could have done would have ever taken that bitterness away for me. It's likely that people who had just started collecting within the last few years with McFarlane could find out exactly how that feels next year if Mattel reverts back to a smaller scale, but McF has had the license for a far shorter time so there was far less time to become as deeply invested (multiply those years and $$$ by 3 to understand where someone like me is coming from).
I started with DC Direct with some DCUC sprinkled in. I'm also 99% all DC so don't have the 6 inch necessity. Even if I have different scales across my DC collection from various companies, I just treat it like a literal Multiverse.
Chiming in once as maybe the site's worst DC fan. I hate chase figures, and I'm glad that disease hasn't spread to other lines. Every time I popped into a DC figure thread it's complaints about scale and accessibility. I get the sense that both McFarlane and Mattel are out of touch with the collecting community, just in different ways.
My DC Figure Checklist...
McFarlane
DKR Batman, Robin, Joker, Superman (all purchased to get the BAF horse), Etrigan, Batman Earth 1 vs Superman
MAFEX
Batman (blue), Joker, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Robin (pre-ordered)
Mattel
Batman (Bloodstorm), Joker (Legacy Edition)
@ninjak let's not pretend Mattel has a monopoly on qc issues. My Mcfarlane Knight Batman snapped right in half at the waist right out of the package. Mcfarlane Multiverse figures have had their fair share of stuck joints and sloppy paint apps just like everybody else, remember Aquamans and Batgirls side eyes? ML, SW Black, Gi joe Classified, super 7, I collect them all and they all have their issues.
In regards to teams we have way more teen titans, Legion of Superheroes, Lanterns, Metal Men, Suicide Squad, Batman Family, Superman Family, Shazam Family, New God's from Mattel than from Mcfarlane.
In regards to teams we have way more teen titans, Legion of Superheroes, Lanterns, Metal Men, Suicide Squad, Batman Family, Superman Family, Shazam Family, New God's from Mattel than from Mcfarlane.
The one exception here might be the Titans. While not the classic line-up a modern Titans is pretty well complete by McFarlane.
I unapologetically want a DC line that fits in both aesthetically and articulationally with Marvel Legends, because having Thor and Superman fighting Doomsday while looking like they fit (reasonably) within the same line is as self explanatory as it gets.
I pretty sure Ted Kord and Spiderman would get up to hijinks and possibly shenanigans.
I unapologetically want a DC line that fits in both aesthetically and articulationally with Marvel Legends, because having Thor and Superman fighting Doomsday while looking like they fit (reasonably) within the same line is as self explanatory as it gets.
I pretty sure Ted Kord and Spiderman would get up to hijinks and possibly shenanigans.
And Booster would be jealous. I need to read this comic.
I unapologetically want a DC line that fits in both aesthetically and articulationally with Marvel Legends, because having Thor and Superman fighting Doomsday while looking like they fit (reasonably) within the same line is as self explanatory as it gets.
I pretty sure Ted Kord and Spiderman would get up to hijinks and possibly shenanigans.
What about Tomfoolery? Would there be any of that?
Copious amounts of jackassery supplied by Deadpool and Ambush Bug.
A little history from the early days as explained to me by a Mattel rep at SDCC way back in 2006. I will try and make this short. Some of you may know all this already, but those of you who don't may find it interesting.
When Mattel first got the DC license from Hasbro (in 2003 IIRC), they started out with three different scales. I'm going by memory here so if I'm wrong please correct me. There was the JLU line based on the animated series, a 10 inch line and a few six inch figures that were Superman and Batman related. In 2005, a buyer at Wal-Mart approached Mattel and said "Hey, we have a line that sells really well for us called Marvel Legends. Why don't you guys do something similar with the DC characters?"
Why not indeed. And that's when the DC Superheroes line was born. Each figure was going to be in the six inch scale, highly articulated with a comic book and a wall mountable display base. And ... BONUS ... all sculpted by the fabulous Four Horsemen. Collectors were giddy with anticipation. How could it miss?
Well, it missed. DC Superheroes was supposed to make it's big debut at SDCC 2005. I was all ready with my tape recorder and camera (ancient times). But at the Mattel booth, disappointment. All they had were the wall mountable display bases but NO FIGURES. Just paper place holders. So I went down to the Four Horsemen's booth and said "Wha hoppened?" I could see the disappointment and frustration on Cornboy's face and hear it in his voice. He was crushed. He told me the FH sculpted some beautiful figures (Darkseid was one) and they were going to bring them with them to SDCC. But literally a week before the show started some DC Direct reps went to the FH's studio in New Jersey and yanked everything the Horsemen planned to display at the show. The FH were flat out told "no". Mattel's license, DC Direct said, only included Batman, Superman and related characters in the six inch scale and that was all. "Wait" said Mattel. "So you're telling us that we can use the likes of Plastic Man and Vigilante in the JLU line but not in the DC Superheroes line?" "That's what we're telling you" DC replied. So ... Mattel sort of resigned themselves to a comic accurate line of Superman, Batman and related characters only. That should still sell pretty well, right? So the FH started sculpting cool stuff like the Hunter Prey Superman, Doomsday, the Azrael Batman and Harley Quinn. And once again, DC said "Nope, nope, nope. You can't do that. NO STORY SPECIFIC CHARACTERS EITHER." Why did DC, and in particular, DC Direct, say no? I'm just speculating, but I think DCD was afraid a mass market line of DC characters (aimed at collectors and not kids) that were all comic accurate and all in the same scale would cannibalize their sales. It would eat into their market share. And they probably had a point.
Well, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. Mattel took DC back to the bargaining table. They gave Warner Brothers a wheelbarrow full of cash and renegotiated the terms of their agreement.
And so ... DC Universe Classics was born. The wall mountable bases and the comic books were out, but Collect and Connect was in. The basic idea was the same: A line similar to Marvel Legends with the DC Characters in their most iconic looks. Same scale, same general principal. Wal-Mart, Target and TRU were happy. And for awhile there, all was right with the world.
And then 2011 and the New 52 rolled around. DC decided they didn't like the word "Classic" anymore. The Green Lantern movie came out and bombed. Toy retailers were stuck with a lot of green. More and more, DC and Mattel were becoming disenchanted with each other. And eventually that was the end of that. The once "Heroic Partnership" dissolved.
What you need to keep in mind is things have changed a LOT since Mattel and DC first partnered up back in the early 2000's. Marvel Legends retailed for less than 10 bucks. Now they're 25. There's no more Toys R Us or KB Toys. Kids just don't appear to be as enthralled with toys as they used to be.
I don't know what kind of success Mattel and DC will have in 2025, or if they'll have any success at all. I hope they do. I hope DC Studios takes off and makes a lot of great movies. I hope Marvel Studios gets their mojo back. That will help action figure sales. But only time will tell.
Someday, hopefully in the not too distant future, I will tell the whole (sometimes sordid) story of how Spider-Man Classic begat Marvel Legends which begat DC Universe Classics which begat the rebirth of Marvel Legends (After Hasbro almost tanked the line for good when they first got the Marvel license). It's a tale of good intentions by well meaning, talented people who were derailed by corporate greed and stupidity.
Greed and stupidity. Isn't it sad how often those two things go hand in hand?
Comic book fans like to have their comic book characters interact. It is for that reason that fans of comic book action figures want their comic book character figures to be the same relative size - so, even if the comic companies themselves can't do crossovers, we can do our own... It is nice to have characters from different properties be able to interact in displays.The fact that we can now have a relatively cohesive 6" display in which Captain America, Spider-Man, Batman, Superman, Darth Vader, Han Solo, Destro and Snake Eyes interact is FUN.
When different universes scale differently those interactions don't work as well and it's less fun. That's it, that's why.
Speaking as a guy who's been reading comic books for 60 years, I will say these statements are absolutely correct.
And well said.
A little history from the early days....
I and many others eat this type of history up. Toy Galaxy, The Toys That Made Us, etc are proof of that. Thanks for the recap. Sincerely!
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