I mean... there's no reason to assume Mattel would be using an ab crunch on new DC figures. They weren't using it on the female figures at the end of their DC figure run and they don't use it currently on their masterverse figures... though it looks like they do still used some modified version of it on their elite wrestling figures, so I guess it's possible. I don't hate it as much as others do, but I wouldn't mind if it's replaced.
The WWE Elites are why I brought it up, although a factor there is that the WWE line is over a decade old and some of the engineering reflects that. The Ultimate-style torsos sneak into the Elite line on occasion, especially with some of the female wrestlers - a lot of them have ring gear with a break at around that point in the torso, so it's a natural way to go.
We probably wouldn’t be having this conversation if McFarlane hadn’t phoned in the last two years of releases. I have no sympathy for the company.
Also, if they had kept the line in scale with DCUC / Marvel Legends to begin with, we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Not sure if I’ll buy these new figures, especially if they are 7-inch scale. They would have to be pretty impressive for me to continue buying the same characters, again, at likely $30 a piece. I’ve been soft boycotting Mattel for years at this point though, so I might just settle for my old boxed up DCUC figures or the two dozen or so McFarlane figures I own and call it quits.
And with the ab crunch goes the sculpt. I was looking at the package version the new Dr Fate figure. The ball joint ab crunch is sculpted in such a way that the upper 2 abs are on one piece and the rest are on another piece. It looks like the upper abs are just floating there. It just looks weird.
Why are you assuming that it's either the ML way or the McFarlane way? Do you not collect (or even look at) other lines? Do Mafex or Figuarts use that ML ab crunch? You genuinely think that higher end companies, who have a much closer focus on integrating sculpt and functionality, are using an inferior joint when a 20 year old previous industry standard that is cheaper to make that is staring them in the face would be easier to make use of? They're not using it because they actually care and think about their product and choose not to use it. Pretty much the only exceptions these days are Hasbro and sometimes Mattel who churn out identikit products with the same old designs and errors because they just don't give a crap. And why should they because most consumers eat it up, with these barely functioning figures and place them a shelf in vanilla poses. It's the Wayland Smithers 'but she's got a new hat' mentality.
The McFarlane joint may not be perfect, but it's much more advanced than the joint that ML has had for over 20 years.
And with the ab crunch goes the sculpt. I was looking at the package version the new Dr Fate figure. The ball joint ab crunch is sculpted in such a way that the upper 2 abs are on one piece and the rest are on another piece. It looks like the upper abs are just floating there. It just looks weird.
The McFarlane joint may not be perfect, but it's much more advanced than the joint that ML has had for over 20 years.
They cant even crunch forward a lot of the time. Who do you think you’re fooling?
I agree that articulation must be functional but it should not make the sculpt look bad and the upper ball joint chest whatever maybe functional but it looks bad.
@dave-o Mattel is not a high end collectible producing company. They produce toys for the general market. They also don't cost as much as the figures produced by the company's you listed. And yes I am an avid action figure collector. I collect action figures not high-end collectables. I know what I personally like and I know what I personally don't like. I know what I can afford and what I can't afford. Calm down. It's just a discussion board about toys.
A torso configured with ball joints doesn't cost more than one with an old school ab crunch. The cost to switch and change the infrastructure of the bodies in use is an expense, but if a company is starting from scratch it's a nonissue. As for aesthetics, that's all on who is making the articulation cuts and I agree that a lot of McFarlane figures do a bad job with that. I also have plenty of figures, expensive and non, that use ball-joints in the diaphragm that look just fine. The main issue with a ball-joint in the diaphragm is some companies don't account for the gaps that will be left behind when bending past a certain point, but again, that's not a cost issue or a fault of the joint, it's just having bad engineers.
I think McFarlane had the right idea with the waist/torso crunch, but the execution is really poor in a lot of instances. I love that both joints can twist side-to-side plus lean in all directions. But where McFarlane chooses to do the cut changes by the figure, and sometimes there are huge gaps even in a neutral pose.
The Blue Beetle mold for example….really good articulation but looks very weird with the top of the abs cut off from the bottom half of the torso.
Jada Toys Fei Long is the perfect design IMO - similar to McFarlane but executed much better.
I’m pretty excited about Mattel getting this license back. I loved the DCUC line back in the day and have kept most everything from it. I hope they keep it 6 inch scale and get to some characters like the Shade, classic Tim Drake Robin, Hawkgirl, and Prometheus that they never got around to the first time. I never could get into the Mcfarlane stuff. The only figure I ever bought was the Nekron deluxe that I felt was an upgrade from the dcuc c&c.
They cant even crunch forward a lot of the time. Who do you think you’re fooling?
I never said it was better executed. But 90% of ML ab crunches look ridiculous when used, revealing a bulbous and unsculpted lump of plastic.
The simple reason is that a McFarlane figure can lean side to side. It's not their invention, Toybiz were using it on figures like the ML6 Wolverine. But then they used a different joint on the Bullseye figure and it got reused not because it was a good joint but because it was a basic body which could be repainted with little effort. And modern figures by ML are mostly following the basic articulation standard because they have no reason to out any effort in. Their product will sell on the name of the characters/#franchise and collectors have little interest except putting them on their shelves all standing and staring in the same direction.
MLs last attempt to do anything innovative was the Fin Fang Foom wave and the 5 inch Spiderman 3 movie wave. There were some potentially great ideas, some short cuts and terrible execution which almost killed the line. Companies like ML and Mattel have learnt to be risk averse.
@ensign You're kind of missing the point entirely. It's an outdated and less functional joint. If it was better then it would be used in higher end collectibles.
Also, by the way, Mafex ends up being expensive because it's imported, but the Mafex Spiderman in Japan costs about the same as the price Hasbro is asking for their new Maximum Spiderman (which also doesn't use that outdated joint).
MLs last attempt to do anything innovative was the Fin Fang Foom wave and the 5 inch Spiderman 3 movie wave. There were some potentially great ideas, some short cuts and terrible execution which almost killed the line. Companies like ML and Mattel have learnt to be risk averse.
Also, by the way, Mafex ends up being expensive because it's imported, but the Mafex Spiderman in Japan costs about the same as the price Hasbro is asking for their new Maximum Spiderman (which also doesn't use that outdated joint).
This isn't true. MAFEX figure are no less than $60 in Japan.
And the ab crunch on the Mafex figures looks just as bad as it does on the Mcfarlane figures. Sorry, just my opinion. To each his own.
The real issue with McFarlane figures is the leg to waist articulation. If you want the legs to kick up you lose the forward movement in the waist. Mattel since getting the license back should have this mindset we are going to bury Marvel Legends which means same scale. They should want to retake the action figure aisle They should come out swinging with different eras displayed and different sized figures. They should look at what Hasbro is doing with Marvel Legends and GI Joe, what Jada toys is doing with Street Fighter and even what McFarlane is doing especially with wired capes. McFarlane's team has said in fan streams it's cheaper to do wired capes. They should also incorporate the digital facial scan on their comic figures used on their WWE figures. It looks great on Marvel Legends. The most important thing is don't hire the Four Horseman to do the line, try to use the sculptors Hasbro Marvel Legends team are using. The most are freelance and should be ecstatic to work on Iconic DC action figures.
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