What would you guys consider a happy medium when it comes to the smooth, simplistic sculpts of the DCUC and the at-times overly intricate sculpts of McFarlane?...Heck, even sculpting the look of fabric and folds here and there can go a long way for me...
For me? Those folds (or preferably wrinkles) are all I need. I would be fine with texture when it's inherently part of the character's design (think chainmail, piping, rivets, etc), but otherwise I like the sculpts to look like the practically-painted-on suits that I grew up with in the 70s and 80s.
What would you guys consider a happy medium when it comes to the smooth, simplistic sculpts of the DCUC and the at-times overly intricate sculpts of McFarlane?...Heck, even sculpting the look of fabric and folds here and there can go a long way for me...
For me? Those folds (or preferably wrinkles) are all I need. I would be fine with texture when it's inherently part of the character's design (think chainmail, piping, rivets, etc), but otherwise I like the sculpts to look like the practically-painted-on suits that I grew up with in the 70s and 80s.
This sums it up nicely for me as well.
Honestly I'd like if McFarlane could continue his line, but either make them exclusives or limit the number of figures released per year by him. It's obvious that Mattel isn't going to make a giant grotesque Clayface, Bane, ManBat or Killer Croc anywhere near what McFarlane can, and I don't know that they're even interested to. Having a "signature" line for older collectors and a standard line for everyone else makes a lot of sense and it would allow me to stay engaged with DC figures I actually enjoy instead of dropping out. The artist specific figures could also be an avenue where I think Todd could offer value in ways that Mattel likely isn't interested in doing.
So, in all honesty, I think this is where Todd having stepped in to take over DC Direct could factor in. If DC were so inclined (and his buddy Jim Lee is still in charge at DC) there could still be a DC Direct avenue through specialty retailers only - and perhaps with a more limited release schedule - that would allow McFarlane to do things like you've described. There's at least a plausible scenario where he gets to do a few more Batman 66 releases, or an oversize "monsters" line that touches those Bat villains you describe and maybe even the occasional special Batman release. Obviously his Multiverse line won't get to continue as it has, and I don't know where the barrier would fall on the Super Powers homage line... if Mattel were not interested it might be possible DC Direct could be allowed to continue limited releases in that format.
But I do think there's at least a chance that the DC Direct relationship could possibly give McFarlane limited access to produce some kind of DC product. It honestly depends on how restrictive the language is in the Master License agreement Mattel signed.
That's a good point. I feel like Mattel threw down the biggest check to cast off any possibility of folks making DC stuff, yet now I'm seeing Beast Kingdom doing things with DC. So hopefully they can navigate it as a Mattel/Hasbro sort of main line like ML, and then other folks can do their thing for the other collectors like DC Direct/Marvel Select. I think the Batman 66 and Superpowers lines are the most likely to continue, but unfortunately those aren't ones I collect. But one can hope. I'm sure Todd will probably try to finagle something, since he used to genuinely hate Marvel and now he's doing their stuff etc. Perhaps all that's needed is time.
And Todd got famous drawing in an era where artists were redesigning costumes with tons of texture - all sorts of straps and pouches and seams and zippers and leather jackets and what not - but ironically the creations he's most famous for - Venom and Spawn - have smooth costumes with relatively little textural detail.
I want to qualify that statement a bit, because Venom and Spawn have a good amount of textural detail, it's just in the cape for Spawn, which Todd always goes hard with (plus all those little details like the chains and spikes), and Venom's gross drooling razor mouth and tongue and his amorphous goo powers. In those cases the smoothness elsewhere helps ensure emphasis is on the elements that make the biggest impact. Venom is also very much a jumping-off point for artists who emphasize style, because with his powers you can make him however huge or muscular or gross you want.
What would you guys consider a happy medium when it comes to the smooth, simplistic sculpts of the DCUC and the at-times overly intricate sculpts of McFarlane? For me, I don't need a ton of texture and levels and panels and knick-knacks and paddywhacks, but a few here and there can be nice. Heck, even sculpting the look of fabric and folds here and there can go a long way for me- that's part of why I personally prefer plastic to soft goods (most of the time)- the soft goods are often too big and pillowy, or because of how it's cut, it's smooth where it should be rippling or what have you. Granted, a lot of the classic heroes are in spandex or spandex adjacent suits, so even those little folds and such wouldn't be necessary, but I still want to feel like some effort went into things, you know?
Simple is sometimes better, no doubt, but if it feels like they just took the exact same parts, threw a little different paint on it, and a different head, that feels almost too simple...Compare that to the old Mattel DC suited body that we saw used however many dozens of times, and it almost always felt the exact same, just in a different shade. There were almost never any new parts aside from the heads, and sometimes even those skewed a little too close.
This is generally how I feel about Mattel DC, and I do still own a lot of DCUC and Mattel Multiverse and enjoy them a great deal, but I would love even just more fabric textures than most of those had. I love details like folds or rippling in coats and capes. I like characters having different silhouettes.
Also, you're totally speaking my language on those suited figures. I'm really into clothes, so figure lines having the one suit body and all the other details being basically the same every time is such a drag for me. Even if the engineering of it was a bit wonky, the DCUC Question having the double-breasted suit makes such a nice difference on the shelf.
I also prefer no added texture/detail unless it’s on the page. The sculpted chest emblems were fine but figures like collector GL where the whole figure was textured…just a bit much.
Scale issues aside I really like Knightfall Batman and Fleischer Superman. Both solid molds that have some costume folds as added detail but are also boot/glove/belt/head swaps away from many other figures. I don’t want DCUC again with the same body on everyone and just painted details…but a few homogenous body molds with added sculpt where necessary for accuracy…I have no complaints about that.
Wanted to share some info I heard on a YouTube video. The guys on the video apparently have some sources inside either Mattel or DC/Warner and heard the license change was potentially coming as early as November 2024. One of them runs the McFarlane Multiverse Facebook group, and he also started a Mattel DC Toy Group back in November, which lines up with their claim. There’s not a ton of eye opening info but a few key things, at least IMO…
There were multiple large bidders for the license. Playmates was one. Hasbro was mentioned by one of the guys but the info didn’t sound rock solid, and it didn’t seem like the Marvel higher ups let those talks get too far. Seems to confirm Warner wanted more global reach for the new products, all the mentioned names have worldwide shelf space at large retailers.
Todd definitely butted heads with some DC folks on the character selection. Wonder Woman was specifically mentioned as one he dragged his feet on (much to Warner’s chagrin). Works fine when your product is selling like crazy, but I’m sure some of that tension boils over eventually.
Also, with about 3:45 in the video they mention that while nothing is confirmed regarding scale, the “rumblings” are that Mattel figures are going to be 7” scale. Makes sense if you consider the WWE and Masterverse figures are not 6” scale…WWE is definitely a step smaller than Masterverse though.
Here’s the full video if anyone is interested: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5arRYxpri6E
Going 7 inch sounds like a bone head thing Mattel would do. It's like when Playmates changed the scale with their Star Trek figures when Star Trek First Contact came out. OR like when Mattel got the DC license and went from 4.5 inch to 6 inch so none of your new Batman figures would fit in scale with your Hasbro DC figures. Let's change the scale when the vast majority of the industry is 6 inch. I don't buy Masterverse because all of my MOTUC figures are 1/12. I won't buy new DC when all of my other Mattel DC figures are 1/12 scale.
The 7 inch scale would make sense since Mattel and DC have comics or did that feature MOTU and DC together. It was rumored back when the Masterverse line came to be Mattel did the line in 7 inch to troll McFarlane. Mattel was absolutely furious they didn't get the license back and vowed that the DC license would return to where it should have never left. It would be strange though to see a movie release of Batman on the WWE Elite or Ultimate body if they were to go that route.
I think it makes perfect business sense. Mattel knew that DC was on a hiatus the last few years thus could care about the license. Dc is returning to prominence with the new movies etc = Mattel is now interested again and outbid McF. Makes sense to me.
As for the scale - the last few Mattel Dc Multiverse were 7". I was not amused as they did not scale with DCUC.
I had those last few DC Multiverse Waves. They were 6 inch along with the rest of Mattels DC Line.
I don't want this point to get lost so I'll repeat it: The reason Mattel got in the 6" scale business in the first place was because Walmart asked them to. Marvel Legends was selling really, really well for them at the time and Walmart thought Mattel could do the same with DC. Honestly, I think Mattel would have been content with just JLU, the 10 inch line and the occasional 6 inch Batman or Superman related figure. I don't know that for sure, no one at the company ever said that outright, but that's the impression I got. But they were happy Walmart suggested that because DCUC took off like a rocket.
Those first few years were great. They were so much fun. The New Gods, the satellite era Justice League, the golden age Justice Society, the Perez Teen Titans, the Secret Society of Super-Villains ... all comic based. I was in heaven.
And then ... they lost their focus. The first disappointment was what I call "GJI" or "Geoff Johns interference". I love the guy as a writer. I think his stuff, particularly JSA, was brilliant. But man o man, his grubby finger prints were all over the last few waves of DCUC. Rainbow Lanterns, Brightest Day, Captain Boomerang in a costume that he wore for what seemed like all of 15 minutes in the comics. At the 2011 WonderCon, a friend and I asked one of the Mattel designers why that particular look for Digger instead of the more iconic costume he wore for years, and one that would make him fit in with the Suicide Squad and Flash Rogues. Our answer? "That was a favor to somebody" and we both knew who he was talking about. And that's when I knew we were well and truly screwed. So long, Perez Titans and Golden Age JSA. Hello whatever Geoff is writing this week. You know, I still love his comics, but I will never forgive him for that. He screwed over people who have been DC fans for decades to satisfy his ego. That was so wrong.
The second disappointment was what I call "The Super Powers Syndrome." Going back to that same Wonder Con and the same conversation I had with the same Mattel rep, he must have said "Super Powers" 20 or 30 times. I think he used it 4 times in the same sentence. "Super Powers this" and "Super Powers that". At that point, I knew that DCUC stopped being a comic based line and was on it's way to being a Super Powers tribute line. If you were a fan of classic comics ... well, you were screwed.
It's a long drive from San Francisco to San Diego, but that was a REALLY long drive. I was so depressed. But little did I know the worst was yet to come.
Listen, let me make something clear: If you're a fan of Super Friends and Super Powers, it's fine. It really is. Fans like what they like. I get it. It's okay. But I'm older than most fans on these boards. I was born in 1958. I wasn't 5 years old when Super Friends first went on the air, I was 15. That's a big difference. I watched the first episode and thought it was crap. I didn't tune in again. I was in the Navy when Super Powers came out and living in downtown San Diego with my girlfriend. I saw the ads for Super Powers in the comics and thought "Oh, that's nice for the kids." But I had no interest. I mean, I could just imagine the look on my girlfriends face if I brought a "Justice Jogger" home. So let me say that no offense is meant to anyone that is a fan of Super Powers and Super Friends. I was actually happy for you folks when McFarlane started doing the Super Powers tribute line. More power to you guys.
Going back to 2011, at that year's SDCC Mattel panel, that blonde lady who worked for Mattel casually announced that wave 20 of DCUC would be the last one available at retail. At that moment you could feel all the oxygen getting sucked right out of the room. You could hear a pin drop in there. That was a fucked up way of telling a large room full of fans that their favorite toy line was ending. I was in shock. I just couldn't believe it. Later that day, Mattel announced Matty Collector.com or whatever it was and I knew that was the end. You had to commit to a years worth of figures sight unseen to sign up. I'm the biggest DC fan I know and even I wasn't going to do that, not after those last few waves. I could just see them making Wendy, Marvin and that dog and me being stuck paying for them. I was astonished that the line got funded the first time. It was just barely, but they made it. They squeaked by a second year, but after that it was over. So why end the line at retail? It wasn't because of sales. 2011 brought the "New 52", you see, and DC wanted to move away from classic looks and promote their bright shiny new stuff. That's why no more DCUC at retail. Online only. I heard that directly from three different Mattel reps so I know that's true.
Man, that hurt. I was angry and very bitter. I went online and said a bunch of real nasty stuff about Mattel, about DC, about Geoff Johns and mostly about Super Friends and Super Powers. There were some years long friendships that ended because of my atrocious behavior. To this day, there are people who see me at Comic Con and just give me an icy glare. That look that says "Yeah, I see you, but I'm not talking to you." Some of these are people that I've had dinner with, gone to the movies with, had over to my house. Well, if that's the way they wanna be, that's the way they wanna be. The way I see it, if your devotion to a 40 year old toy line is more important to you than a real life friendship, then your priorities are completely out of whack. I don't think I WANT to be your friend. But I know that it's on me. All of that could have been avoided if I had handled my disappointment like a grown up instead of a five year old, but I didn't.
So Mattel ended up losing the license and McFarlane got it. When I saw that Todd was making the figures in the seven inch scale, I wasn't angry, I was actually relieved. It was money saved. I've never bought a McFarlane anything and it's okay. I'm not starting over with a different scale. No way. I'm glad it worked out that way.
And now here we are. What's Mattel going to do? I don't know. I don't know anyone there anymore so I'll find out when everyone else does. My guess would be that they'll follow what Hasbro is doing with Marvel Legends. Stick with the 6 inch scale but make it a mix of comic, movie, TV, animated and video game figures. And again, that's fine. I'll buy what I want and skip what I don't. I tend to stick with the comics so there'll be a lot of skipping. I'm good with that.
My hope is that Mattel and McFarlane share the license. That Todd is able to continue chugging along and make the folks that like that scale and style happy. I hope Todd continues the Super Powers line. I don't collect that but I don't want the fans of that line to feel the same shock and disappointment I felt in 2011. For Mattel, I hope they go back to six inch and pick up where they left off, but with today's engineering. That would be fun. I hope they get someone who's a big fan of DC to head up the line. That would be great. Basically, I guess I just want everyone to be happy. I know it's not likely, but I always have hope.
If you've read all that, thank you. It was cathartic for me to write it. Let's all just hope for the best.
“Remember, Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies."
Great read SD and I remember when you were very active on the actionfigureinsider forum. I couldn't wait to see your pics from SDCC. I was in Germany at the time and it was one of the highlights of my weekends. I'm glad you are still active on the forums. 😀
Great read SD and I remember when you were very active on the actionfigureinsider forum. I couldn't wait to see your pics from SDCC. I was in Germany at the time and it was one of the highlights of my weekends. I'm glad you are still active on the forums. 😀
That is so very much appreciated sir. Thank you for that.
@ SDcomics I will never forget SDCC 2011 I called that Friday in July “The day the music died.”
My thoughts on Mattel possibly going with 7” scale? If they do, they’re making it a lot harder on themselves. Both the “Never Mattel” McFarlane fans AND the “Never 7” collectors will be out.
I went though my McFarlane DC figures this evening to see what I wanted to get rid of and what I wanted to keep. I was surprised at how many were keepers and how few were getting the boot. I’ll probably end up with around 50 or 60 when it’s all said and done (allowing for additional purchases over the next year). So, yeah…the line had its moments.
Let me qualify that, though. Given the same number of releases, I would probably have 5x as many from a more consistent and mainstream DC line..and I would have been happy to buy them from McFarlane if he had delivered.
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