Blaaargh. How many times has this argument reduced a seemingly normal thread involving grown men talking about toys into an unreadable chum bucket full of entitled myopia? At least, like, a bajillion times, amirite? Can’t you just recite it word for word by now? With plenty of the word “fanboy” tossed around.
Yeah, fanboy — that’s a word that sucks. Stop using it, you ignorant swineheel.
I’ll be honest, it wasn’t until I started posting on one of these toy website whatchamajiggers that I even realized that “classic versus modern” arguments cropped up with such alarming frequency. And I’ve been embroiled in my share of them. I wouldn’t say I argue, though, more like mock with some measure of snooty derision while pretending I’m above it all. And I think my pinky finger is out also. Yes, let’s say it is.
It’s no secret that my initial preference is classic. I’ve been reading comics a long time. Longer than some, not as long as others, but the point is, there’s a lot of memories stored up in my headsticles. And let’s get the N-word out of the way right now before this goes any further. You know the word I’m talking about …
Nostalgia.
Ooh that word, that word! Everyone treats it like it’s the boogieman or something. How many times have you read the words “blinded by nostalgia.” Can nostalgia blind you? You can be blinded by ignorance, you can be blinded by stupidity, but can you really be blinded by nostalgia? Isn’t that just a fancy way of saying “How the typewriterswearing can you like this when I don’t like it and clearly my tastes are ever so much more refined than yours, you dilapidated junk heap of a Tolstoy fondler!”
Oh, yes, that 50 cent comic aimed at the broadest possible market while still more or less targeting the average 10- to 12-year-old doesn’t quite live up to the standards set by such brilliant current comics as “Age of Ultron,” so therefore if one has fond memories of it, they must be blinded by nostalgia.
Give me a typewriterswearing break you pusillanimous pile of Pepsi bottles.
Maybe I do have (whispered voice ) nostalgia, but you know what else I have? Actual curiosity, varied interests, personal preference, and broad tastes. And having broad tastes means that I totally get both sides of this stupid argument.
Let me tell you something I don’t speak of in polite company.
I was once a modern guy.
IT FEELS SO GOOD TO GET THAT OFF MY CHEST!
But no, remember the ’90s? Friends, flannel, grunge music, Frank Sinatra was still alive, that dude shot himself and made a bunch of idiots sad … yeah, those were the days. Marvel was pumping out a vat of X-figures per day, all brand new and current. Comics were … well, comics were. They existed. I was buying those comics, and those toys, and you know what?
I wanted to have figures of the characters I was reading … in the costumes I was reading!!11111
Gasperoonie.
So yeah, modern guys, I’ve been one of you. I’ve experienced that side. I didn’t want that Shatterstar because he was wearing a new costume; I wanted the one with red shoulder pads or whatever. Was it shoulder pads? Typewriterswear, it was always shoulder pads with those guys. So yeah, Bishop had his newly shorn head and big-ass knee pads, Rogue wore this, Cyclops wore that, and I wanted those figures because I was reading those comics. My god, those comics.
And fast-forward to today, and you know what? Some of those characters that are in the comics now. Hey, uppity classic dude who hasn’t read a brand new issue since the black Spidey head was being used in the UPC spot, I’m talkin’ here. Some of those characters are really frickin’ cool. You know what I had to do? I had to read the typewriterswearing comic in order to fully appreciate them. I mean, sure, imagination can make anything cool.
Read that again you knock-kneed satellite-eared bird brain: imagination can make anything cool.
Hell, keep repeating it until it sinks in.
But even with that, it’s nice to read an issue of a comic featuring the figure, if you’re into that sort of thing. And you are, because you’re on a toy website, and not “deflated boobs and the men who sniff them.”
You’re … you’re not on that site, are you? *eyeballs*
Take for instance, the SDCC Thunderbolts. Decent figures, really nice figures actually, but after reading the comic? Bammo — a whole new appreciation, and even genuine interest in getting the new upcoming Boomerang figure. Same for the previously released red She-Hulk. I didn’t care for chromatically challenged Hulks because it all seemed a little too familiar to the Lantern-raping that went on when Geoff Johns suddenly became obsessed with Crayola crayons. But I read the Red She-Hulk issues and it’s a pretty damn nifty comic. So much so I almost wish that the figure was wearing the costume she’s NOW wearing in the book because it’s totally bitchin’.
Cripes, how frickin’ modern do I need to be?
Nut.
So yea, you guys who rant and rave about the neophytes and their constant need for now now now, why don’t you pant and sweat your way to the local comic shop and split the spine on a new book and maybe find out if you actually like the character that little plastic figure is representing before you levitate yourself to the holy mountain and rain down your fiery applause on this napsack world of ours.
And now … you modern guys. Your turn.
“Old comics are old, those characters haven’t been in that costume since my dad still had hair waaah.”
Or my favorite:
“I don’t know who that is! I’m not buying him!!”
If only there was someplace on the internet to learn about characters that you may not have been exposed to, or to find some comics that may feature those characters.
Do you never watch old movies? Old television shows? Do you change your phone number every month? Never wear the same shirt? Are your shoes new? No, really, are those new shoes? They’re pretty cool; I’ve never seen any like those before. I need a new pair also.
See, comics don’t really have a rigid linear timeline. You can appreciate stories from all eras, if you’re not completely intellectually deficient. I know, I know, those strange warbly bubbles scare you, and that narrator guy who tells you the things you could probably figure out by staring at the picture is frightening, but those are thought bubbles, and the other things are narration boxes. You can feel free to ignore them if you want to. The writer won’t be offended. Hell, if the comic is old enough, he’s probably dead.
And a story is a story. Stories are universal, timeless, ageless. You know what a stupid complaint is? Saying something is dated. What does that even mean? Who cares?
All I hear are excuses.
I know what’s behind it all, though. It’s fear, isn’t it? Hell, I’ll admit it. it is. If those toy companies make some stupid costume that’s been in the comic for 30 seconds before they make the one I’ve been waiting 20 or 30 years for, I will spit in sand and call it a mud pie is what I’ll do! And if some modern dude doesn’t get that costume that he just read, why, he’ll never ever ever get that chance again because lord knows that comic evaporates right after he read it, and toy companies will never make that character again, not in 10, 20 or 30 years.
How pathetic we all are. You’re all petrified you won’t get your brand new costume, and you’re petrified they won’t make that character in the costume you liked when you were 10. Hey, I’ve been in both of your shoes. I’ve been screwed on one end, and screwed on the other also. And not in the fun way. Not in the fun way at all.
This is a vicious hobby and it takes no prisoners. Attica! Attica! Attica!
If the toy companies cared, they’d produce nothing but box sets of characters with all their costumes. But then you’d have some who didn’t want all the old ones, and others who didn’t want the new stuff, and they’d use words like “tactical,” and the other guys would use words like “silly” or “garish,” and I’d pinch my nose and do my deep-breathing exercises and punch that blow-up doll that looks like James Lipton a few times. And then the toy companies would whine that box sets don’t sell because of a fractured audience. Because toy collectors like their silly little bubbles, all nice and neat on the cardboard backing, and they’re terrified of not being mint-on-card. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we can’t have nice things.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m going to chug some napalm, fart some victory, and go slamdancing with Genghis Khan and a couple of buxom foreign ladies what don’t speak English too good …
Discuss this wherever the typewriterswearing you want to discuss it.
RE: Idiot Objector and Ninjak
I will add:
1. There is only one group that wears power rings. And those rings are green. There is only one Sinestro because that’s all that is needed.
2. The New 52 never happened.
3. Brand new day never happened. Peter and MJ are married.
4. X-Force is lead by Cable. It is comprised of Cannonball, Domino, Siryn, Boomer, Rictor, Feral, Sunspot, Warpath and Shatterstar.
5. The X-Men have 2 teams. The Blue team lead by Cyclops and the Gold team lead by Storm. Professor X leads both teams.
6. X-Factor is Havok, Polaris, Quicksilver, Wolfsbane, Strong Guy and Multiple Man.
7. There is no Damian Wayne. Robin is Tim Drake. Dick is Nightwing.Jason is Red Hood.
8. There is only one Batgirl. And that is Barbara Gordon.
9. The Human Torch never died because that is just stupid.
10. Tobey is the one true Spider-Man in the MCU. There is no Andrew Heathcliff or whatever Mr. Bedhead’s name is. The real Peter Parker knows how to operate a comb.
I have to agree with pretty much everything that Idiot Objector said.
And I will add:
1. Spider-Man is NOT an Avenger (or a member of the FF)!! He’s Marvel’s ultimate loner and he would never permanently join a super-team.
2. FF stands for Fantastic Four – NOT Future Foundation!
3. Spider-Man is NOT Dr. Octopus. Why was that ever even an idea that somebody came up with? And why is it still going on? If it had to be done, it should have been a 3 issue story arc at most.
4. Gwen Stacy is NOT Norman Osborn’s baby mama! That is just sick, and should never have seen print.
5. Wolverine does NOT have children and clones of himself running around. Why would you take one of your coolest, original, and most popular characters and water him down by making copies of him? That’s just dumb.
You know one thing that classic comics have over modern? No classic comic has Bendis as writer.
Modern Marvel sucks because:
A. Disney is the anti-Christ. I mean that literally.
B. There is no such thing as a bolt of thunder. Thunder is sound. It comes in peals. Lightning comes in bolts. This is also one of the many reasons I think ac/dc sucks. The word “thunderbolt” is nerve-grating.
C. Turning villains into heroes is BS. It’s not “Emma Frost” of the X-Men. She’s The White Queen of the Hellfire Club.
D. Crossbones is a bad guy.
E. Colossus is not the Juggernaut.
F. The X-Men don’t live on some island like a bunch of cowards.
G. Norman is the Green Goblin.
H. Jean Grey is alive and well.
I’m not interested in stories that claim otherwise.
I respect that you want to “keep with the times” and all. But let’s be honest. We all live in the past. Our personalities are shaped by our memories. You can’t live in the present. By the time you’ve stated that you do the moment you were thinking of us gone and in the past. The future is imaginary. So we are all “blinded by nostalgia”. The past is all we know. The question is, how far back in the past you you want to live?
Or? Do we live in the past or simply prefer one writer to another. Screw cannon. Jubilee is not a vampire. She’s a mallrat mutant.
Man, it’s a good thing I’m more of a toy fan than a comic fan! I just buy whatever looks cool!
…oh god, I have so many toys *sob*
Hey Benty, you think coimicbook fans are bad, try going on a Star Wars board sometime and say you prefer the prequels to the “dated” 30 year old original trilogy and see what happens. (Hint – there will be blood). 🙂
I LOVE COMICS! I LOVE ACTION FIGURES! I LOVE COMIC ACTION FIGURES! (specifically marvel legends) so I get them all!
But, I am not a completest… how can I say that… because it is not because I need every figure from a specific line because I need the whole set, it is because I get them all because I want as diverse and complete a universe to be what makes up my collection. So if I do not know a character, I get the figure, just as happily, even if not as excitedly, as a character or look I love… then you know what I do when I do not know the character beyond name? I LOOK HIM UP ON THE INTERNET! Comicvine has a wonderful wiki for characters that is beyond full, even going into emotions and actual character/personality not just events in their past. And then boom, new awesome character, or new look for a character to go on whatever team I decide they fit on (that’s right, I make my own damn stories for my figures, and my rotating display of actiony goodness). Sometimes they become characters out of time, meeting their older/younger self (thank you current X-men books for making that part of comics even more solidly!), clones that some insane department H weapon X program scientist made (have to do something with those 80gazillion Wolverines).
Yes, I may say I wish it was something different, or a character is stupid (lets be honest some are… X-treme for example, but hey, if someone else really wants him, more power to them, and hey, I got a guy to constantly have dying in my display!), but that does not mean I do not think they are worthy of a figure. I LOVE Noh-Varr from his original Marvel Boy comic… I didn’t want him as Protector… but you know what, he is a figure of Noh-Varr, OR if I ever get the Noh-Varr I want, he can become some other Kree, or the figure can be the look he dons to fit in better with an all black and white uniformed team, or it can be what he wears when he wants to be less noticed as who he is.
They can all have a place. I do not understand the putting down the things others are glad to have… unless the figure itself is done poorly…
I also really do not understand how a new figure isn’t just as much a reason to learn new things about something you love enough to risk the social ridicule and put up your hard earned money for little plastic versions of fantasy people…
great read btw
Believe it or not, but I agree completely… although often the issue is that its easy for those on forums to pigeon-hole individuals as modern/classic when things are often in reality much more complex. I’ve always said that there has to be a place for both, but most of the ‘nerd-rage’ (from myself and others) instead comes from the fact that Hasbro often seem to pick inappropriate designs that don’t reflect the timescale of the popularity of a character. E.g. Jubilee had most exposure in the Jim Lee era, not as a vampire. At the same time, its ludicrous that Archangel didn’t get widely released in those X-force colours. I actually think that Hyperion probably should have been produced in a more modern variation because his role seems more significant these days. I’m honestly delighted that Hasbro’s doing modern versions of all of those Guardians of the Galaxy characters (Rocket Raccoon, Groot Star-Lord and so on) as they are clearly much more popular now than they have ever been. Phinneas hits the nail on the head when he says that often the choice is based on ease-of production rather than what will have the most appeal, which seems like a false economy.
Sometimes other posters are so eager to pigeon-hole you just for expressing an opinion, that they end up applying on tunnel vision that only takes notice when you say things that fit a pre-defined view of which category you fit into. Most of the time on the forum I’ve just expressed the view that there should be more balance between modern/classic, but once that has been said, I am somehow taken to be saying that modern has no place in the line, despite the fact I don’t think any such thing. E.g. other posters ignoring when you say you actually like designs modern/classic designs. Just yesterday, I posted on the Wolverine Legends forum that I liked most of the new designs and was happy to have new costumes for these figures. I previously said that I thought Future Foundation Spider-man was a lovely re-design, and repeatedly said that I love updates on characters that bring something fresh but keep continuity with core elements that were there before. I’ve said on many occasions that Hasbro has to cater for fans reading comics today. I read lots of modern comics when they come up on Marvel digital (I don’t get much time to get to comic shops these days to actively collect new releases). Also, I’m only 30, and my favourite era is the 90’s comics, so I’m not even sure that classifies as ‘classic’. Its a label I keep getting, but its just an oversimplification. Easier to mock someone for being narrow-minded when reality is too complex to oversimplify.
I remember one £”$£-storm where I simply said that I didn’t think there was much point calling the line Legends more, as the core concept seemed to change. Which was then taken to mean that I was saying there should be no modern designs in the line, despite the fact I wasn’t saying any such thing but was merely saying that the concept itself was different. Half of the time the issue is people on the forums going nuts without actually reading/understanding what has been posted.
Dude. Those images fit right in perfectly with an idea I’m floating. And the article is in perfect context to it.
Love it!
CLASSIC!
Well said, Mr.Wilson.
Well said!
Thanks a heap, Benty.
I love an indignant, logical,shrewd,longwinded, metapowered,sardonic,witty, rapacious, rant!
My grandma taught me truth in thought and deed to guide my actions like the force. Not all ppl like the same things not even nerds. (otherN-word) If I can’t engage in a Civil spirited debate, I simply change the subject or disengage. A technique I’ve practiced since I was a little kid. Doesn’t matter if it’s music, fine-art,sports or literature.etc.–whatever! I state my opinion,the facts, logic, then move on. Or like a ninja I stay silent, observe and listen, evanescent. Polarized I am not. I have no allegiance to any manufacturer of fiction. A good story is a good story period. Being an analytical nerd I often read Google/wikki for research on ancient and modern myth. Especially since I can only afford to feed my plastic habit these days. Rarely do I buy Comics these days.. Darkhorse, Marvel, DC or any other.(I am reading Mighty Avengers now– They finally decided to bring back Blue Marvel! A character, that like DC’s Icon, should be active) I also feel that a story should end @ some point. Like Soaps,Comics use similar ongoing, static character devices and I stopped watching soaps YEARS ago! LOL. BTW: when ppl say,” I don’t know who that is.” I respond with jubilation and, “I AM buying that!” It’s my goal to collect the classic and fresh newbie arcane, esoteric, obscure,unique action figures. Ikaris, GeoForce,Box, Jem, Ulik, Acidstorm, Dr.Destiny,Rom, Angleman, Slyde,Javelin, Phantom,Evilstar,Graviton,Harbinger,Misty Knight, Groot,DexStar,HitMonkey, Nemesis, Howard the Duck, Kamandi,Tom Strong,Ch’p, Karen Beecher,Mara Jade …to name a few. I get items sometimes just because the design is awesome and no knowledge of the character eg; Masterchief from Halo. Never played the game.Lmao
I’ve been on both sides of this argument as well; it’s an easy way to justify one preference over another when it really shouldn’t matter. But everything matters on the Internet, and I’ll kill you in the face if your preference doesn’t align with my preference.
This is just another excuse for degra to write one of his lists…
Nice article, man.
By the way…….I’ve been in these arguments in the past, so I know I’m not blameless, but grew out of it. It’s better this way. As Rocky said, “If I can change and yous can change, then maybe we can all change!” Then The Cold War ended.
haha, thanks Benty for writing this. I love comics and figures, but HATE the idiotic condescension posed by some over their preferred or despised comic eras and creators. To be honest I see it as embarrassing anymore when someone puts down a comic. Not all comics are meant to be nor ought to be DKR or Watchmen. I like grabbing old reads from a simpler time. Sometimes for nostalgia, sometimes for the style of the time, sometimes to remember where these characters came from, but all the time just because I like it! This is a hobby, not life or death; comic-elitists probably turn casuals off. Everyone should be able to enjoy their own thing, it’s an escape from reality and temporary re-entry into adolescence, have at it.
That said Benty, I like Infinity quite a bit, but also love the old stuff. Whether it be my adolescent favorites in the 90s or Marvel Masterworks or anything in between I missed. Like it all. Also, learn how to customize if you’re that bitter about Ultimate Beetle being made instead of classic-you’ll be happier folks.